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Soil Surfactants/Wetting agents?

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188K views 387 replies 96 participants last post by  MacLawn  
#1 ·
Has anyone tried these in the past or have any experience using them? I stumbled upon cascade plus 16g, and was intrigued. The Cascade plus 16G is granular and is applied with a broadcast spreader every 4-6 months (covers 5700 SF at the max rate). I know the liquid forms are cheaper, but I'm already applying so much monthly, I'd like something that lasts the entire growing season. I'm only applying it to a small 3k lawn, so the bag might last me 2 seasons?

The link above has the price at $110+70S&H(ouch) for THE 42lb bag.
 
#2 · (Edited)
I tried Cascde Plus (Granular) a few years ago as the local TruCut(Now my Baroness) Dealer stocks Precision Labs products. I think I payed about the same price without shipping obviously for the bags. I put it down but didn't really pay it too much mind as I ran into other issues with the lawn at the time. It's suppose to be really good stuff but I prefer the liquid over the granular as I don't trust the "long term" residual of the granular.

I really like the idea of a wetting agent in the fact that it gives a more uniform wetting of the soil than just water alone and that is my reason for starting it again this year with Tournament Ready. I always seem to get some LDS(Localized Dry Spots) in the lawn and I am hoping this alleviates some of it. I prefer the liquid as it is too easy to apply when I'm applying other things to the lawn as it will(Should) mix with anything as it is basically a soap. The price of this has gone up here recently as I bought mine for around $188 with free shipping. Any other benefits I can gain from it will be a plus. I have also read that when using a wetting agent the more you use it the better results you will get so it's not a one and done kind of thing.

I haven't applied the Tournament Ready yet as I still have some Lesco Moisture Manager left over from 2 years ago that I am trying to use up, I'm not too sure how it works either but it's not as an advanced formula as Tournament Ready is. I also have a EZ-FLO hooked up to my irrigation so I bought some H20 Maximizer Pellets to add to the tank to give the soil a little extra boost each time I water the lawn. I haven't added this either as I am wanting to wait until the lawn gets thicker to start applying it but I may just go ahead here soon regardless.

So as you can see I have dabbled in the past with them but kind of just let them go after applying. This year I plan on taking note of everything so I can tell a difference or not. Here is a good article on Wetting Agents
 
#4 ·
GrassDaddy said:
I used aqueduct and saw the results quickly. I think it was $60. Within a week the lawn went from brown to green it was crazy. Now I try to do home made conditioner frequently although I haven't this year.

http://aquatrols.com/aqueduct/
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Where were you able to find it at? Local or online?
 
#9 ·
I'd buy it just because of the good bluegrass banjo music!

I tried looking for Cascade a few years ago and couldn't find any locally. I even emailed the company for local distributors and heard nothing back. I guess Costco and Walmart sell it in the detergent section, though.
 
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#10 ·
Virginiagal said:
Why not just use baby shampoo in a hose end sprayer? I have done that and it really helped.
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I've used both. The shampoo/home made stuff works but much slower. The pro grade stuff is designed for "instant" results. A lot of it is geared towards golf courses where they can't wait it out. What I did with my lawn was used the pro-grade stuff immediately and then now I try to do the home made stuff to keep it in check.
 
#11 ·
GrassDaddy said:
Virginiagal said:
Why not just use baby shampoo in a hose end sprayer? I have done that and it really helped.
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I've used both. The shampoo/home made stuff works but much slower. The pro grade stuff is designed for "instant" results. A lot of it is geared towards golf courses where they can't wait it out. What I did with my lawn was used the pro-grade stuff immediately and then now I try to do the home made stuff to keep it in check.
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I could see how using a combo of 2 methods might work better than one. Did you make a video about this yet?
 
#13 ·
Redtenchu said:
I could see how using a combo of 2 methods might work better than one. Did you make a video about this yet?
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That is one of the marketing points of the Underhill Tournament Ready - it is supposed to be a blend of three different surfactant ingredients... 3 > 1, right? :lol:

I've been using it on the premise of what it is supposed to do, but I feel it would be nearly impossible to accurately judge the effectiveness of these products outside of a laboratory environment. There are just too many variables present on a home lawn - weather, turf conditions, and soil moisture all vary wildly throughout the season. We also never see the same rain event twice. This makes me skeptical that I could personally compare the true effectiveness of different wetting agents on my lawn.
 
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#14 ·
Redtenchu said:
I could see how using a combo of 2 methods might work better than one. Did you make a video about this yet?
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I did one on the BLSC but not on comparing the two. The pro grade stuff I used a bag 2 years ago on the slope. Water would run off so even with irrigation the lawn went dormant.

When I used shampoos and blsc its taken longer to see the results. That other stuff was a week later. Now like you said I dont have data to show weather differences and maybe the home brew if I just used a tiny bit more would have been the same.

 
#15 ·
I want to do a little more research on this whole soap vs wetting agent discussion but from what I have read and researched already it seems like wetting agents are designed with polymers and the like to "cling" to the soil particles and stay there longer than a soap would. Most soaps are designed to be washed away after application so I'm not sure what lasting effect they would have. This is all my thoughts on the situation.

Red, what are you looking for in the use of wetting agents? not all wetting agents are the same as some will "hold" water while others are designed to "pull" water. I believe Pantera is designed to "pull" water away from the top layer of soil. I've watched several YouTube videos about it.
 
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#19 ·
Great point on the types.. The bag I had was more a recovery product for dry spot. The same company has a variety for different things.

I wish I saved it but i saw a video where a golf course used a type to allow water to drain quickly off the greens. They sprayed a hose and the grass took it like a drain it was crazy.

I'm definitely interested in learning more too!
 
#20 ·
Mightyquinn said:
Redtenchu said:
MQ, I'm looking to pull/move water. Not hold.
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Cool!! I'll be curious to hear your thoughts on it once you use it.
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I'm also interested to hear you thoughts. I have a few spots in my yard that have slight pooling, particularly my swale. I am hoping that some sand in the right areas will help but would definitely give this a try if it's helpful.
 
#21 ·
Mightyquinn said:
Redtenchu said:
MQ, I'm looking to pull/move water. Not hold.
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Cool!! I'll be curious to hear your thoughts on it once you use it.
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Am I right in my limited research that Lesco Moisture Manager is more of a holder? Benefiting long droughts and such. While Tournament Ready is more of a puller, trying to remove the moisture from the surface of the ground? also reducing the surface tension?

I have looked at a few Lesco Products(through SiteOne aka JDL). I believe both of these are also more of pullers, reducing surface tension and allowing water to more easily penetrate the soil.

LescoFlo Ultra (fyi $178 per 2.5 gal local SiteOne). 1-2 apps per season recommended
LescoWet Plus(fyi $125 per 2.5 gal local SiteOne). monthly apps recommended

I would be looking to remove water quicker from my swell and also hopefully allow the grass at the top of my hill near the sidewalk take in water more easily. Rather than losing it to runoff whenever it rains.



Thanks!
 
#22 ·
You are correct in that LMM is designed to hold water, so it may work for your hill. Something like Pantera, that Red is going to try should work for your swale. I'm still new to this also but I am willing to experiment to find what works best for each situation.

All wetting agents will improve water distribution in the soil regardless of there mode of action.

I too need to do some more research on them and thanks for the prices at Site One as there appears to be some good alternatives at a fair price.
 
#23 ·
This seems to be a pretty good article on the subject Understanding The Different Wetting Agent Chemistries. Though, I think I am going to have to read it a few times to understand it all. Sounds like Tournament Ready is the good stuff, along with a product called Revolution which seems to be even more expensive. Thought the price per all depends on application rates obviously.
 
#24 ·
SGrabs33 said:
This seems to be a pretty good article on the subject Understanding The Different Wetting Agent Chemistries. Though, I think I am going to have to read it a few times to understand it all. Sounds like Tournament Ready is the good stuff, along with a product called Revolution which seems to be even more expensive. Thought the price per all depends on application rates obviously.
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Some quick math on the Tournament Ready... it is currently priced $0.64/oz shipped in the 2.5gal jug at Sprinkler Warehouse. The "monthly maintenance treatment rate" is 4oz per thousand, so you're looking at a cost of $2.56/mo per thousand.

Note that they do suggest a double rate application the first month. Here is a link to the product label.
 
#25 ·
SGrabs33 said:
This seems to be a pretty good article on the subject Understanding The Different Wetting Agent Chemistries.
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+1, I linked the same article in my first post in this thread and is definitely a good read!

Lesco Flo and Lesco Wet appear to be very similar and are both designed to "hold" water in the root zone. The higher price of Lesco Flo is because it only requires 1-2 applications per year. I haven't seen anything on SIteOne that is designed to "pull" water from an area. I will definitely keep these two in mind for my next wetting agent purchase. I do know the Lesco Moisture Manager uses "old" technology which why it is much cheaper than the other 2. I'm thinking of doing an experiment with some soil and the various wetting agents I currently have on hand to see if I can tell a difference or not. Also going to try the soap with it too!
 
#26 ·
I received the Penterra today. I was excited to apply it because we are expecting lots of rain (flooding) this weekend. I'm hoping it helps move water as advertised.
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As I began to apply the Penterra at 1oz/1k, I could definitely tell it was powerful! No Dye was added, or needed!
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Now let me set a few thing straight before you look at the next 2 pictures....
The following pictures have been taken from different sections of my lawn, at different times of the year, different HOC, different watering amounts, different Temps, different everything! This is just for fun but to me it's amazing! :D

This is early fall of last year, water would bead and roll off like I had applied RainX to it.
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This is while I was washing out my sprayer, the hose had run for 20-30 seconds before I had taken this picture. It was amazing how the water was just absorbing into the ground! I'm very excited!
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