Getting Bermuda To Run

Warm season grasses like Bermuda, Zoysia, St. Augustine, Centipede & Paspalum
Iopsurfer
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Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by Iopsurfer » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:04 am

I am trying to get my Bermuda to run. I have seeded in Mid July in the areas that are without grass, with fertilizer to encourage growth. Should I add some play ground sand at 1/4 to 1/2" depth. I water via sprinklers for three thirty minute periods a day. 41.3 KB IMG_0693.jpg Check Error
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Last edited by Iopsurfer on Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

TN Hawkeye
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by TN Hawkeye » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:13 am

Iopsurfer wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:04 am
I am trying to get my Bermuda to run. I have seeded in Mid July in the areas that are without grass, with fertilizer to encourage growth. Should I add some play ground sand at 1/4 to 1/2" depth. I water via sprinklers for three thirty minute periods a day. 41.3 KB IMG_0693.jpg Check Error
Image
How is your germination? Are you trying to get runners from the established grass? Fertilizer and mowing low usually will encourage runners. Roughing up the soil can help too but you don’t want to damage your seedlings. You could also take plugs from your turf and put them in bare areas where the seed isn’t coming up.
Last edited by TN Hawkeye on Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
I may not have the best lawn and I may not have a clue what I’m doing but that’s pretty much all I have to say.

Iopsurfer
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by Iopsurfer » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:31 am

I am hoping the seed I just put out will come up. And I am hoping the existing Bermuda will run as well. I mow at 2.75" usually twice a week.

I was thinking to get some bags of play sand to encourage runners.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

I had the best lawn in the winter with rye. Now, I am embarrassed.

erdons
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by erdons » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:45 am

Mowing shorter will make it spread..

BermudaBoy
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by BermudaBoy » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:48 am

I had a similar situation earlier this year with my bare spots. I used to feel embarrassed every time someone would walk past my lawn.

When I planted my seeds, I hit my lawn with a double app of Milorganite to use as a starter fertilizer and followed up with an app of Carbon X to put down some quick release nitrogen. I was trying to get my seeds go grow but what ended up happening was that all the fertilizer caused my existing grass to spread like crazy and overtake my seedlings. It didn't produce a lot of runners but it spread via rhizomes.

Every month since then I put another app of Milo and a light app of CX to keep it going. Your yard is a quite bit bigger than mine but I've found that pushing the existing grass works better than seeding, if you have a decent amount of existing grass. My Tifway completely overrun my Princess and now only a few blades of it are left and will soon be overrun.

You can also try reducing your cutting height. Mowing low helps to increase lateral growth.

TalonII
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by TalonII » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:23 am

Looks like I’ve had it backwards from releasing this thread. Ive been trying to get my established p77 to spread so I’ve been cutting high once a week.

I guess I need to change up my plan!

adgattoni
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by adgattoni » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:55 am

According to this study found by @BenC in this thread, flazasulfuron (Katana) resulted in noticeable stolon elongation with zero turf injury. Applications of chlormequat chloride (Cycocel (Not labeled for residential turf)) increased the # of stolons per test pot, with minimal turf injury. There was also a reduction in turf height compared to the control with both products (though not as significant as Tnex).

If I had the money, I'd run a test with both products combined with 1lb nitrogen per week, but alas I do not have $350 for an experiment. If the peeps at DoMyOwn want to fund this experiment, I'm your huckleberry.

BermudaBoy
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by BermudaBoy » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:14 pm

TalonII wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:23 am
Looks like I’ve had it backwards from releasing this thread. Ive been trying to get my established p77 to spread so I’ve been cutting high once a week.

I guess I need to change up my plan!
Mow low and mow often. I keep mine at two inches because going any lower would scalp half of my lawn due to how uneven it is but I'd love to go down to 1 inch. I now mow twice a week unless it's insanely hot like it has been in NC recently and put down 1.5lbs of nitrogen per 1000 square feet every month.

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Redtwin
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by Redtwin » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:16 pm

I remember reading something somewhere about very light doses of Glyphosate having a stolon-stimulating effect on hybrid bermuda but for the life of me I can't find it anywhere. Maybe I was dreaming but can one of the experts/greenkeepers chime in if this sounds familiar?

Disclaimer: Don't go trying this at home until it is confirmed with a study. :?

adgattoni
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by adgattoni » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:26 pm

Redtwin wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:16 pm
I remember reading something somewhere about very light doses of Glyphosate having a stolon-stimulating effect on hybrid bermuda but for the life of me I can't find it anywhere. Maybe I was dreaming but can one of the experts/greenkeepers chime in if this sounds familiar?

Disclaimer: Don't go trying this at home until it is confirmed with a study. :?
In the study I linked a few posts above, they found that glyphosate did increase stolon length but also resulted in mild turf injury. If you can stomach up to 13% turf injury, you can get 2.25x the stolon length with glyphosate at a rate of 0.2kg/ha.

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Redtwin
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by Redtwin » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:38 pm

Doh! I missed that. I see it now at Table 7 and 8 of that study. Thanks, I'm glad to know I wasn't crazy. Rate 2 seems to be the optimum. Any idea on how to convert that to ounces/K?

TalonII
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by TalonII » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:54 pm

BermudaBoy wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:14 pm
TalonII wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:23 am
Looks like I’ve had it backwards from releasing this thread. Ive been trying to get my established p77 to spread so I’ve been cutting high once a week.

I guess I need to change up my plan!
Mow low and mow often. I keep mine at two inches because going any lower would scalp half of my lawn due to how uneven it is but I'd love to go down to 1 inch. I now mow twice a week unless it's insanely hot like it has been in NC recently and put down 1.5lbs of nitrogen per 1000 square feet every month.
Yeah, I’ll have to do a gradual leveling starting in the spring. I have a couple of low spots and one area where runoff has cut a small trench by the back patio.

ktgrok
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by ktgrok » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:31 pm

Huh...explains why the common bermuda I kept trying to kill with roundup came back lower/thicker/denser/greener...over and over again. At this point, I figure, whatever. At least it looks better.

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Sublime
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by Sublime » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:51 pm

Redtwin wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:38 pm
Doh! I missed that. I see it now at Table 7 and 8 of that study. Thanks, I'm glad to know I wasn't crazy. Rate 2 seems to be the optimum. Any idea on how to convert that to ounces/K?
If I'm doing my math right, it would be 1.84 grams per M at the 0.2kg/ha rate. I'd be afraid with that small of a measurement that if my scale weren't PERFECTLY calibrated that it could end up doing more damage than reported in that study. I wouldn't give it a try.
Last edited by Sublime on Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Redtwin
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by Redtwin » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:00 pm

Yeah, my math show a SUPER low rate as well.

Base Rate was .8922 lbs/acre
Convert to Ksf would be .8922 /43.56 =.02048 lbs/Ksf
Convert to ounces would be .02048 / 16 = .00128 oz/Ksf

They applied at .1 of the base rate so that would be .000128 oz/Ksf

That can't be correct. Where am I going wrong?

Edit: I agree with @Sublime; I'll be sticking to my T-Nex, water, and nitrogen.
Last edited by Redtwin on Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Redtwin
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by Redtwin » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:20 pm

Oh... maybe they were using a 100% solution of Glyphosate. That means if we used a 41% solution we would divide by the percentage. Therefore, the .000128/.41 =.000312 oz/Ksf. It's still ridiculously low. Maybe there is an issue between dry ounces and fluid ounces.

gpbrown60
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by gpbrown60 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:29 pm

Iopsurfer wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:04 am
I am trying to get my Bermuda to run. I have seeded in Mid July in the areas that are without grass, with fertilizer to encourage growth. Should I add some play ground sand at 1/4 to 1/2" depth. I water via sprinklers for three thirty minute periods a day. 41.3 KB IMG_0693.jpg Check Error
Image
Get some Black Cow Organic Compost Manure from a big box store like Home Depot and spread it over the area. You can also mix it with sand. It is around $5 or $6 for a 50 lb. bag. Continue to water and I think it will grow in faster as long as you don't have a deluge and wash it away. :thumbup:

Ben S
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by Ben S » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:36 pm

It's not normally advisable to fill bare spots in Bermuda with seed. You may end up with noticeably different colors or textures. The existing grass will spread with generous applications of nitrogen and frequent mowing. I think I read someone on this forum say you could go as heavy as 1 lb. N/k/week.

BermudaBoy
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by BermudaBoy » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:13 pm

Ben S wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:36 pm
It's not normally advisable to fill bare spots in Bermuda with seed. You may end up with noticeably different colors or textures. The existing grass will spread with generous applications of nitrogen and frequent mowing. I think I read someone on this forum say you could go as heavy as 1 lb. N/k/week.
That's what I ended up doing. I actually reached out to Pete from CGI Turf on filling in my bare spots. He told me to chop up my bare spots, mix in some black cow and drop a healthy amount of Carbon X on the soil and keep the lawn irrigated for the next month. So far it has worked out quite well. Just be careful to keep the fertilizer on the bare spots because I have a nice area of scorched earth in my backyard from some sloppy fertilizing. Here's the video where he explains the process.

cglarsen
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Re: Getting Bermuda To Run

Post by cglarsen » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:49 pm

adgattoni wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:55 am
According to this study found by @BenC in this thread, flazasulfuron (Katana) resulted in noticeable stolon elongation with zero turf injury. Applications of chlormequat chloride (Cycocel (Not labeled for residential turf)) increased the # of stolons per test pot, with minimal turf injury. There was also a reduction in turf height compared to the control with both products (though not as significant as Tnex).

If I had the money, I'd run a test with both products combined with 1lb nitrogen per week, but alas I do not have $350 for an experiment. If the peeps at DoMyOwn want to fund this experiment, I'm your huckleberry.
I’m about to run a test on fill in with high rates of nitrogen, T-Nex, and water for the next 4-6 weeks. The energy has to go somewhere if it can’t go vertical.

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