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Bermuda Triangle

Warm season grasses like Bermuda, Zoysia, St. Augustine, Centipede & Paspalum
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dfw_pilot
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Bermuda Triangle

Post by dfw_pilot » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:32 pm

There any many roads to Dallas, but one of the best approaches for weed control in warm season grasses, even in the heat of summer, with the cheapest cost per application, is:

Image

And here is how it works:

Image

In the Bermuda Triangle, you'll want:

1) A good pre-emergent like Prodiamine [Label] or Dithiopyr [Label].
2) Certainty for sedges. [Label]
3) Celsius for all the rest. [Label]

That's it. There are no temperature restrictions on any of the items listed in the Bermuda Triangle.

4) Get a decent sprayer wand to apply the chemicals.
5) Use a gram scale to weigh out your doses.
6) Apply off brand glyphosate with a paint brush on anything that survives the Triangle.

Depending on how large your lawn is and how bad your infestations are, the price per app with these chemicals is much cheaper than big box store options. That's really all you need. Eventually, your weed pressure will drop so far you can give your leftover herbicides to a friend or neighbor.

The initial investment is steep, but will pay for itself in time, while allowing you to put down less chemicals and have fewer weeds than with hose end applications from box stores.

dfw
Last edited by dfw_pilot on Tue May 30, 2017 3:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Links
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Re: Bermuda Triangle

Post by CenlaLowell » Sun May 28, 2017 3:28 pm

dfw_pilot wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:32 pm
The best approach for weed control in warm season grasses, even in the heat of summer, with the cheapest cost per application, is:

The Bermuda Triangle
Image
And here is how it works:
Image

In the Bermuda Triangle, you'll want:

1) A good pre-emergent like Prodiamine [Label] or Dithiopyr [Label].
2) Certainty for sedges. [Label]
3) Celsius for all the rest. [Label]

That's it. There are no temperature restrictions on any of the items listed in the Bermuda Triangle.

Depending on how large your lawn is and how bad your infestations are, the price per app with these chemicals is much cheaper than big box store options. Invest in a decent sprayer wand for your sprayer for accurate applications, and a small gram scale for accurate doses. That's really all you need. You can always add some cheap glyphosate and a paint brush for something that survives the Bermuda Triangle. Eventually, your weed pressure will drop so far you can give your leftover herbicides to a friend or neighbor.

The initial investment is steep, but will pay for itself in time, while allowing you to put down less chemicals and have fewer weeds than with hose end applications from box stores.

dfw
Good information I will invest in those products.
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Re: Bermuda Triangle

Post by drlushin » Tue May 30, 2017 3:43 pm

Since Celsius WG is no longer available on the site linked above, does anyone have any experience w/ their alternative suggestion, Blindside?

Btw, just joined this site last week. I have learned a great deal in the last week. Have a long way to go before I get to the level of you guys.

I sense a great deal of humility, kindness and comradery on this site. I am really happy to have stumbled onto this site. Now having said that... my wife and employer might not be as happy as I am.

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Link

Post by dfw_pilot » Tue May 30, 2017 3:51 pm

No, I wouldn't get Blindside.

Just google for different online supplier - I'll change the link. Thanks for finding that!
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Celsius WG

Post by Ware » Tue May 30, 2017 3:54 pm

drlushin wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 3:43 pm
Since Celsius WG is no longer available on the site linked above, does anyone have any experience w/ their alternative suggestion, Blindside?

Btw, just joined this site last week. I have learned a great deal in the last week. Have a long way to go before I get to the level of you guys.

I sense a great deal of humility, kindness and comradery on this site. I am really happy to have stumbled onto this site. Now having said that... my wife and employer might not be as happy as I am.
Here is some for $105.95 delivered from Lawn & Pest Control Supply. There is also some on eBay right now for $105 delivered.

We have a great group here - glad you found us! :thumbup:
Last edited by Ware on Tue May 30, 2017 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bermuda Triangle

Post by drlushin » Tue May 30, 2017 8:01 pm

Thank you guys! I appreciate you

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Re: Bermuda Triangle

Post by Movingshrub » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:21 am

From a cost angle per application, I think dfw_pilot is spot on.

However, I couldn't help myself and wanted to have a better handle in terms of what wasn't going to be picked up by the aforementioned Bermuda Triangle. The main category that kind of sneaks by is post-emergent control of grass-like weeds. With that being said, hopefully the pre-em controls most of them, if they are annuals.

As a result I wanted to know if there was a substitute for any leg of the triangle that would broaden coverage, still be cost effective, and be safe to apply no matter the temp.

TL;DR - The best alternative I found was replacing Certainty with Monument to pick up a few additional grass-like weeds, but it's going to cost more.

I also didn't want to sacrifice sedge control for the grass like weed control. For sedge control, I looked at several different university studies to see which products stood out. The contenders to me were either Monument or Certainty. In terms of cost per application, Certainty is a better value in price for app vs Monument at pricing, as of July 1st 2017. Certainty came out to $2.09 or $3.32 per application, depending on the rate, and Monument was $4.60 per application.

Reading the labels, there are a few grass-like weeds that aren't picked up by a mixture of Celsius and Certainty, such as smooth crab grass, signal grass, rescue grass, and torpedo grass. With that being said, the tank mix of Celsius and Monument or a tank mix of Celsius and Certainty could both be equally effective at controlling all the aforementioned weeds, even though they aren't listed on the label, I just haven't tried first hand.

I don't want to be in a situation where I have a bunch of different 1/2 Gallon bottles of herbicide where I've used 6 oz.

I bought a house where the lawn hadn't been maintained in at least a decade.

For my own personal use, I've use a hose end sprayer for a broadcast of a three-way (2,4-D, Dicamba, and then something like MCPA). Afterwards, I put down a DImension (dithiopyr) pre-em for the next season and started using Celsius to spot spray for weeds.

The only other thing I'd considered was doing a broadcast of quinclorac to go after the grass-like weeds hiding in my yard. Currently, I have yet to go that route and have stuck with hand brushing with glyphosate when I discover them.
Last edited by Movingshrub on Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bermuda Triangle

Post by Redtenchu » Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:37 pm

Movingshrub wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:21 am
...I wanted to know if there was a substitute for any leg of the triangle that would broaden coverage, still be cost effective, and be safe to apply no matter the temp...
I don't want to speak for DFW, but my simple answer is Nope. It's simple, and it works.

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Re: Bermuda Triangle

Post by Movingshrub » Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:42 pm

Redtenchu wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:37 pm
Movingshrub wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:21 am
...I wanted to know if there was a substitute for any leg of the triangle that would broaden coverage, still be cost effective, and be safe to apply no matter the temp...
I don't want to speak for DFW, but my simple answer is Nope. It's simple, and it works.
That was my conclusion as well. If someone wanted to spend a bit extra per application, monument in lieu of certainty would pick up a few extra grass-like weeds and still be temp friendly. Also, I think monument is limited to only some warm season grasses.

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Re: Bermuda Triangle

Post by high leverage » Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:12 pm

"The only other thing I'd considered was doing a broadcast of quinclorac to go after the grass-like weeds hiding in my yard. Currently, I have yet to go that route and have stuck with hand brushing with glyphosate when I discover them."


I would never broadcast spray quinclorac. Combined with a NIS or MSO you will get heavy bleaching of your turf that takes weeks to heal.

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Re: Bermuda Triangle

Post by CH-Johnson » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:15 am

This may have already been answered, but can we definitively say that Certainty does not have temperature restrictions for bermuda, similar to Celsius? I don't see anything on the label, but didn't know if anyone had first hand experience, and I have yet to use it in the heat of the summer in GA.

I was fairly certain this was true, but I told my neighbor I would find out before I gave him a solid answer.

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Temp Restrictions

Post by dfw_pilot » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:52 pm

CH-Johnson wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:15 am
can we definitively say that Certainty does not have temperature restrictions for bermuda, similar to Celsius?
There are no temperature restrictions on the Bermuda Triangle. I've used the Celsius/Certainty combo for two years now in 100°F+ with no problems. If there really were temperature restrictions, it'd be pretty mean of me to post otherwise. 8-)

The label lists none, and I take it at its word. There may be some yellowing afterward. This may be caused by the grass already being weak due to external reasons like poor cultural practices or using a poor application method. The grass may be weakened, but the weeds will die.
Last edited by dfw_pilot on Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bermuda Triangle

Post by Ware » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:58 pm

Agree, and given the choice between sedge or some temporary discoloration/chlorosis, I would rather eliminate the sedge. :thumbup:

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Re: Bermuda Triangle

Post by thegardentool » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:36 am

Can Celsius and Certainty be tanked mixed effectively? I don't think the labels say they can, but I have seen a couple of posts elsewhere that suggest some professionals do it. I do have some areas of widespread outbreaks of both broadleaf and sedge, and probably need to start with a broadcast app over the whole yard once I invest in a good sprayer.

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Mixing

Post by dfw_pilot » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:31 pm

thegardentool wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:36 am
Can Celsius and Certainty be tanked mixed effectively?
I've mixed the two for the last two seasons with excellent results.
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Re: Bermuda Triangle

Post by Colonel K0rn » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:14 pm

Movingshrub wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:21 am
I bought a house where the lawn hadn't been maintained in at least a decade.
I'm in the same boat. My yard has been neglected by my own hand, along with lack of putting any pre-e down, or just proper maintenance. I'm seeing the benefits already by putting down one app of Celsius WG, and taking off a lot of the pressure from the weeds that were all over the lawn. What normally took me 3 hours to edge, trim, mow and blow I completed in 45 minutes... for the 2nd time this week. It's nice to be able to enjoy the mow, and not dread it.

The only other trouble weeds that I can see in any great amount right now is Goosegrass, and Green Kyllinga. I probably have a few other very persistent weeds that I've overlooked, but I'm sure that when I get with the program to put down my pre-emergents, I'll be moving along further to get to overseeding and lawn levelling.
I tend to edit because I forgot to put something in my post.
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Re: Bermuda Triangle

Post by slomo » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:59 pm

How about goose grass? Any grass weed types, does Celsius kill them off?

I'm starting to use Trimec for broads and glyphosate for the rest. Sedges, goose grass, crab and so on get some glyphosate. I don't have Celsius in my arsenal. Getting yellow spots due to heat. Might as well glyphosate the tough weeds/grasses.

slomo

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Re: Bermuda Triangle

Post by Ware » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:14 pm

slomo wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:59 pm
I'm starting to use Trimec for broads and glyphosate for the rest.
I would encourage you to do what works best for you, but Trimec is a 2,4-D product, so the label advises against use on desirable turfgrass when air temperatures exceed 85F (i.e. today). Glyphosate is part of the Bermuda Triangle, but it's a last resort.

For someone on a solid pre-e plan (the first leg of the Bermuda Triangle), I think they would be hard-pressed to find anything in their lawn (broadleaf or grassy) that Celsius and Certainty or Sedgehammer wouldn't kill. That's why so many of us here use the approach outlined at the top of this page.
slomo wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:59 pm
Sedges... get some glyphosate.
Many report only marginal control/suppression of mature sedge with glyphosate because it is not thoroughly translocated to the underground tubers.


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Re: Bermuda Triangle

Post by Movingshrub » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:19 pm

I started off with dithiopyr, 2,4-d, sedge hammer, and glyphosate, and am slowly transitioning into the Bermuda Triangle. I've got a section with a bunch of sedges where I am eager to try out Certainity. Also, I am still trying to evaluate granular vs liquid application. Liquid is absolutely a better deal but I want to be able to rotate by chemical method of action, which is a lot easier with granular for me vs having a seven year supply of each liquid pre-em.
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Re: Bermuda Triangle

Post by Colonel K0rn » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:28 am

slomo wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:59 pm
How about goose grass? Any grass weed types, does Celsius kill them off?

I'm starting to use Trimec for broads and glyphosate for the rest. Sedges, goose grass, crab and so on get some glyphosate. I don't have Celsius in my arsenal. Getting yellow spots due to heat. Might as well glyphosate the tough weeds/grasses.

slomo
After talking to my county extension agent, and having some in-depth conversations with turf professionals, I've decided to go with Dismiss (Sulfentrazone) to handle the goose grass, and the sedge problem(green kyllinga) that I have. I'll let you know the success or failure that I have with that approach. After I get these two dead, I'll be working on my Pre-E applications.
I tend to edit because I forgot to put something in my post.
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