N-Ext Products

A place to discuss soil fertility and soil amendments
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ksturfguy
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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by ksturfguy » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:48 pm

thegrassfactor wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:42 pm
ksturfguy wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:29 pm
Depending on the price, I hope to give it a shot. Also considering buying some of the other GCF products. I definitely think the theory behind all of this is intriguing. It's kind of surprising there is such limited research on the soil conditioning products and how much if any they actually help. Have read mixed things for sure. Some publications say they won't hurt anything but no real evidence they improve turf quality and other publications say they are very beneficial. To me it definitely makes sense that if you can improve the conditions of the soil that the turf is growing in then you should have healthier turf.

I checked with K-State University and they really haven't tested them yet. They did do a test on Humic Acid a few years ago to see if it helped with drought resistance but he said the year they did the test they got above average rainfall that summer and saw no difference between area with Humic and area without. Have reached out to other universities in area to get their opinions on some of these products but never heard back.

Just really hard for me to get on the Milorganite bandwagon. As someone with a bigger yard, it would just be so much more expensive for me to buy compared to my normal fertilizers.
http://mogic.org/wp-content/uploads/pag ... ervin.pptx

The goal is building soil organic carbon/humus layer.

The PowerPoint cited demonstrates the products with greatest efficacy.
Thanks I'll read that over. One of the articles I read talking about the benefits cited the Virginia Tech studies.

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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by thegrassfactor » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:53 pm

osuturfman wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:38 pm
To the point that a 50 lb bag is not economical or ideal for a homeowner, you have to understand that Carbon X is really about a yearS long approach to building the soil N bank into a well-oiled machine. That 50 lb bag might be around 2-3 years for someone with a small lawn but, it will take at least that type of commitment to see the true benefit of the product. There will essentially be three "Ah Ha" moments when it comes to people who make this a big part of their overall program:

1.) Initial - You're going to see things pop, even at the low rate, from the Ammonium Sulfate and Ferrous Sulfate. Flat out, it will make grass look better.

2.) Mid Year 2 - Grass has been looking good for the past year, comes out of Year 2 spring charging hard and ready for a tough summer. You make it through to July/August and are impressed at the resiliency of the grasses ability to withstand extremes. This is the RGS and Composted Poultry Manure doing their jobs to provide the plant and soil with the right balance of growth hormones (see RGS) and steady N supply (see CPM).

3.) Mid Year 3 - You're realizing you can stretch your interval between apps a little longer, lower rates incrementally, and get through and come out of stress periods more predictably. This is the biochar, in concert with the other derivatives, driving the whole soil/grass system to a very high level of efficiency.

A 50 lb bag is just an initial commitment to staying the course over a period of yearS to experience all of these moments because they will happen. I know because I've used a very similar, and much more labor-intensive, approach to what @thegrassfactor has put into one bag. It will work and you'll be amazed if you commit.

Sounds like a hard sell but, I'm just speaking from experience.
Wow. Please understand what I mean when I say thank you. So very well put.

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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by osuturfman » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:57 pm

thegrassfactor wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:53 pm
osuturfman wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:38 pm
To the point that a 50 lb bag is not economical or ideal for a homeowner, you have to understand that Carbon X is really about a yearS long approach to building the soil N bank into a well-oiled machine. That 50 lb bag might be around 2-3 years for someone with a small lawn but, it will take at least that type of commitment to see the true benefit of the product. There will essentially be three "Ah Ha" moments when it comes to people who make this a big part of their overall program:

1.) Initial - You're going to see things pop, even at the low rate, from the Ammonium Sulfate and Ferrous Sulfate. Flat out, it will make grass look better.

2.) Mid Year 2 - Grass has been looking good for the past year, comes out of Year 2 spring charging hard and ready for a tough summer. You make it through to July/August and are impressed at the resiliency of the grasses ability to withstand extremes. This is the RGS and Composted Poultry Manure doing their jobs to provide the plant and soil with the right balance of growth hormones (see RGS) and steady N supply (see CPM).

3.) Mid Year 3 - You're realizing you can stretch your interval between apps a little longer, lower rates incrementally, and get through and come out of stress periods more predictably. This is the biochar, in concert with the other derivatives, driving the whole soil/grass system to a very high level of efficiency.

A 50 lb bag is just an initial commitment to staying the course over a period of yearS to experience all of these moments because they will happen. I know because I've used a very similar, and much more labor-intensive, approach to what @thegrassfactor has put into one bag. It will work and you'll be amazed if you commit.

Sounds like a hard sell but, I'm just speaking from experience.
Wow. Please understand what I mean when I say thank you. So very well put.
You're welcome. Takes a lot of courage to do a startup, especially on something like this. Looking forward to getting my hands on a few pallets this spring. Just tag me as @osuturfman in the marketing testimonial so I don't get in trouble. :nod:

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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by samjonester » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:30 pm

thegrassfactor wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:10 pm
It depends on what you're doing. Is your lawn in good shape and trying to maintain? Low rate. Establishment/renovating? High rate. Recovery, grow in, "winterizing" - Med rate.
Thanks for the no-nonsense translation.
thegrassfactor wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:01 pm
We are looking at 8-10 weeks depending on growing conditions.
It seems like those rates coupled with the interval you described will create a greater impact of with lower levels of input.
thegrassfactor wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:37 pm
Yes, the mission in mind is a foundational ground up approach to lawn care. John's focus is reduced inputs. He teaches clearly and designs programs with that focus. He's an expert at that. I focus more on the chemistry and synergy between the inputs, surfactants, and binders. For instance, Carbon-X has a pH of 7, even with all the ammonium sulfate. That was important to me. We both share environmental goals as well - minimize our footprint, both in lawn care and manufacturing. I think the goal is to focus on our individual passions/strengths and find the synergy among them. He's a visionary. I like to mix beakers.
I think you two will continue to make a great team, and really impact the industry. Good work! Thanks for sharing with homeowners, too.
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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by Pete1313 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:59 am

@thegrassfactor, I'm wondering if you or anyone else can comment on the % breakdown of what is in Carbon-X, as I'm looking at it hard to see if it makes sense to use it next year. From the online label and % of sulfur I can guesstimate that their is ~50% AMS, but am curious about the amounts of CCM, biochar, RGS, and if any other N source. I'm currently planning on using either AMS and Anderson's humic DG, MESA and Anderson's humic DG, or a combination of the 2, but wondering if Carbon-X would be a better fit. I have 38+k sq ft, so cost/benefit comes into play, but am excited about the product and the slow release of AMS. If I do decide on Carbon-X, I would be looking at a pallet from the pre-order.
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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by thegrassfactor » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:17 am

Pete1313 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:59 am
I'm wondering if you or anyone else can comment on the % breakdown of what is in Carbon-X, as I'm looking at it hard to see if it makes sense to use it next year. From the online label and % of sulfur I can guesstimate that their is ~50% AMS, but am curious about the amounts of CCM, biochar, RGS, and if any other N source. I'm currently planning on using either AMS and Anderson's humic DG, MESA and Anderson's humic DG, or a combination of the 2, but wondering if Carbon-X would be a better fit. I have 38+k sq ft, so cost/benefit comes into play, but am excited about the product and the slow release of AMS. If I do decide on Carbon-X, I would be looking at a pallet from the pre-order.
I can give that to you privately, but understand it's proprietary information and given we are a start up, we have to be very protective of it.

There is 1oz in 1lb of RGS.

<attorney pulled the plug on this>

and a few other components i prefer not to list.
Last edited by thegrassfactor on Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by Pete1313 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:24 am

I completely understand, and am interested. Shoot me a PM, or if there is a better method of contact just let me know.
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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by Methodical » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:38 pm

viva_oldtrafford wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:28 pm
LouisvilleGrubber wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:08 pm
I'd also be curious to know who is using these products and how they are working. Where are people buying them? The fact that I've only seen these products on YouTube channels is a bit of a yellow flag for me, but I could be talked off that ledge.
Rightfully so. These products come with claims that cannot be backed by science. Sure, you'll get some anecdotal stories of positive results, but nothing more. If you have the disposable income, and have some free time, by all means, give these products a try (spoiler...don't expect any real results from the super, duper, mega liquid aerification product). My favorite professor at Penn State, Dr. McNitt, would always tell us something along the lines of "if the product really works, the industry will let you know. You won't need a salesperson to fill you in".
I use the N-Ext products, but only the RGS, Humic 12 and GreeNe Effect. Below is how I use them in my program.

GreeNe Effect:
I can affirm that the GreeNe Effect definitely works in making the lawn green. I used it in the Summer months to green the lawn when I use no fertilizers and recently (November 8th) I applied it to my lawn and the lawn is still a deep green (see photos below). I want to see how long it lasts and how long I can keep the grass green deep into the winter months. I plan to make another application in December, weather permitting. The area in the 2nd photo was badly damaged by fungus during the September rainstorms, along with the high humidity. From the calculation below, you can see the amount of N applied is very negligible, so the iron is doing the work. It costs me $10.40 per application on a 8k sq' lawn ($104/5 gallon or $20.80/gallon. At 8 oz/1k sq' (@ 8k sq'), I get 2 applications per gallon or $10.40 per application or $1.30/1k sq').

Liquid Fertilizer calculation: GreeNe Effect

2.5 gallon of product = 26.25lbs
2.5 gallons = 320 oz (128+128+64)
1 oz of product = .08lbs (26.25/320)
8 oz of product x .08lb = .64lb/1k
.07N x .64lb = 0.0448lbs of N\1k per application

Humic 12:
What you'll need to understand is that this is not going to make your lawn green per se, but instead, it helps the lawn more effectively use what's there. This helps condition your dirt and is not an overnight remedy for jacked up soil. I see long term solution with this product. So, if you are thinking it will green up the lawn like fertilizer, you will be disappointed and barking up the wrong tree. Additionally, I've found a more potent Humic product (70% vs 12%) and applied it this fall and will do so again in the spring - again a long term solution with 2 applications per year (see below).

Andersons Humic DG Granular Soil Conditioner

RGS:
Again a long term solution that is suppose to help the grass during harsh weather conditions. Since it's suppose to stimulate rooth growth and help the grass withstand heat stress etc, I applied it this fall as part of my winterizer application. So, basically I use RGS like Potassium, if you will.

Air8 or Detathch:
I am not convinced that these products work nor replaces the regular 'ole mechanical stuff because no one has conducted real testing that has convinced me, so I will continue to use mechanical means to Aerate or Dethatch my lawn whenever it's needed.

To sum it up, I am working on a long term solution to a healthy lawn and therefore I am focused on feeding and conditioning the soil with these products. My plan is to use more organic fertilizers this season.

Note: I renovated my lawn in fall 2017 with a complete kill off and to jump start the soil conditioning process, I rototilled compost about 6-8" into the clay soil and top dressed the lawn the following spring.


Image


Image
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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by Scagfreedom48z+ » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:55 am

Nice write up! Your alternative to Humic 12 seems to be a better alternative for the price.

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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by NoslracNevok » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:58 am

@Methodical What does the grass look like meow?
Time flys like an arrow, fruit flys like a banana.

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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by Methodical » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:15 am

NoslracNevok wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:58 am
@Methodical What does the grass look like meow?
Do you mean what does the grass look like now?
"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic"

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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by Methodical » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:17 am

Scagfreedom48z+ wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:55 am
Nice write up! Your alternative to Humic 12 seems to be a better alternative for the price.
Thanks. I wish I could get that stuff locally because shipping is high, but at 2x/year I am ok with it.
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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by NoslracNevok » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:30 am

@Methodical yes
Time flys like an arrow, fruit flys like a banana.

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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by Methodical » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:49 am

I just went outside and took photos of the same area.

Btw, I just got finish cutting the grass and there was a little bit of growth. I use the Timemaster and filled the bag with clippings (7600 sq'). Cutting height 2.5"

Note: the quality of the photos may not be the same as my previous post as it seems the uploader may have resized them and changed the resolution affecting the fine detail of the grass blades, but I think it still ok for viewing.

Image

Image
Last edited by Methodical on Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by Scagfreedom48z+ » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:09 pm

Grass still looks pretty good to me

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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by gpbrown60 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:49 pm

Additionally, I've found a more potent Humic product (70% vs 12%) and applied it this fall and will do so again in the spring - again a long term solution with 2 applications per year (see below).

Methodical,
Just an FYI. You can get Anderson's Humic DG 40 lbs on the AM Leonard website for $42.99 a bag. I purchase mine there and wait until they offer free shipping. It is the best price I have found.

gp

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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by Methodical » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:15 pm

Scagfreedom48z+ wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:09 pm
Grass still looks pretty good to me
Thanks
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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by Methodical » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:16 pm

gpbrown60 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:49 pm
Additionally, I've found a more potent Humic product (70% vs 12%) and applied it this fall and will do so again in the spring - again a long term solution with 2 applications per year (see below).

Methodical,
Just an FYI. You can get Anderson's Humic DG 40 lbs on the AM Leonard website for $42.99 a bag. I purchase mine there and wait until they offer free shipping. It is the best price I have found.

gp
Thanks for the heads up. I am going to check them out as they may have some winter specials. Do they have a pattern for when they offer free shipping?
"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic"

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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by gpbrown60 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:14 pm

Methodical wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:16 pm
gpbrown60 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:49 pm
Additionally, I've found a more potent Humic product (70% vs 12%) and applied it this fall and will do so again in the spring - again a long term solution with 2 applications per year (see below).

Methodical,
Just an FYI. You can get Anderson's Humic DG 40 lbs on the AM Leonard website for $42.99 a bag. I purchase mine there and wait until they offer free shipping. It is the best price I have found.

gp
Thanks for the heads up. I am going to check them out as they may have some winter specials. Do they have a pattern for when they offer free shipping?
A.M. Leonard just had a black Friday free shipping sale. I am uncertain when the next one is. You can sign up and get notified via email of their periodic sales and offers.

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Re: N-Ext Products

Post by Methodical » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:25 pm

gpbrown60 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:14 pm
Methodical wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:16 pm
gpbrown60 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:49 pm
Additionally, I've found a more potent Humic product (70% vs 12%) and applied it this fall and will do so again in the spring - again a long term solution with 2 applications per year (see below).

Methodical,
Just an FYI. You can get Anderson's Humic DG 40 lbs on the AM Leonard website for $42.99 a bag. I purchase mine there and wait until they offer free shipping. It is the best price I have found.

gp
Thanks for the heads up. I am going to check them out as they may have some winter specials. Do they have a pattern for when they offer free shipping?
A.M. Leonard just had a black Friday free shipping sale. I am uncertain when the next one is. You can sign up and get notified via email of their periodic sales and offers.
Great. That's what I will do.

Thanks again...Al
"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic"

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