Chris LI's Lawn Journal

Cool season member lawn journals
Chris LI
TLF Supporter
Posts: 981
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:04 am
Location: Long Island, NY
Grass Type: KBG,TTTF, FF-different mixes
Lawn Size: 5K
Mower: Snapper Hi Vac 21"

Re: Chris LI's Lawn Journal

Post by Chris LI » Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:51 pm

Green wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:28 pm
M32075 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:37 pm
I have a big love hate in my backyard in full sun no irrigation with a nimble weed issue that I'm clueless how to deal with. After the new year I'm going to try to come up with a game plan for it.
Image
Best thing is Tenacity plus surfactant blanket spray at 4oz per acre rate 2-3 times every 2-3 weeks, starting in July. It'll kill it. It will also injure the Zoysia and thin it, but not kill it outright. It'll stress the cool season grass slightly. Nick, how much of that brown do you think is Nimble vs Zoysia?

Guys: I still haven't gotten to winterize my family member's lawn in coastal CT. It's either Monday or I lose the chance. You guys probably have a bit more leeway where you are.
Funny you mention winterizing timing. After a good freeze on Thursday (27* at 8 pm) we had a rainy warm front come through yesterday (52* at 8 pm). Temps rose throughout the night to a high of 59* today. We had almost 4" of rain total, between yesterday and today (0.61" yesterday; 3.24" so far today). I took several soil temps (front and back) today around 3 pm with all at 48* +/- 0.3*. I was thinking about trying a test plot or two where I dropped winterizer, but now I don't know if I'll have time. I would have mowed to bag leaves and check clippings today, but it was way too wet.

Chris LI
TLF Supporter
Posts: 981
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:04 am
Location: Long Island, NY
Grass Type: KBG,TTTF, FF-different mixes
Lawn Size: 5K
Mower: Snapper Hi Vac 21"

Re: Chris LI's Lawn Journal

Post by Chris LI » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:02 pm

M32075 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:44 pm
Green wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:28 pm
M32075 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:37 pm
I have a big love hate in my backyard in full sun no irrigation with a nimble weed issue that I'm clueless how to deal with. After the new year I'm going to try to come up with a game plan for it.
Image
Best thing is Tenacity plus surfactant blanket spray at 4oz per acre rate 2-3 times every 2-3 weeks, starting in July. It'll kill it. It will also injure the Zoysia and thin it, but not kill it outright. It'll stress the cool season grass slightly. Nick, how much of that brown do you think is Nimble vs Zoysia?

Guys: I still haven't gotten to winterize my family member's lawn in coastal CT. It's either Monday or I lose the chance. You guys probably have a bit more leeway where you are.
From what I can tell the nimble only in the cool season area the zoysia to thick for it to spread
It sounds like you may have thoughts on a reno at some point. What about an overseed, once you get some weed issues better under control? I will be trying to beat back some Zoysia with Tenacity to keep it under control, and get my kbg to spread. Maybe and idea for you? I'm very curious about something, however. Did you previously have a pool over the large round green area?

One of the techniques I have used to combat Zoysia, is to use cultural practices to favor cool season grasses. Mowing high and fertilizing in the cooler spring and fall months. Sometimes, this meant my hellstrip getting a little less fertilizer, since I skipped a late spring/early summer app. I think this helped a little bit.

M32075
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 7:46 am
Location: Plainview Long island NY 11803
Grass Type: Ft prg. Bk zoysia cool season
Lawn Size: 4000
Mower: Craftsman rotary

Re: Chris LI's Lawn Journal

Post by M32075 » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:22 pm

Chris LI wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:02 pm
M32075 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:44 pm
Green wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:28 pm


Best thing is Tenacity plus surfactant blanket spray at 4oz per acre rate 2-3 times every 2-3 weeks, starting in July. It'll kill it. It will also injure the Zoysia and thin it, but not kill it outright. It'll stress the cool season grass slightly. Nick, how much of that brown do you think is Nimble vs Zoysia?

Guys: I still haven't gotten to winterize my family member's lawn in coastal CT. It's either Monday or I lose the chance. You guys probably have a bit more leeway where you are.
From what I can tell the nimble only in the cool season area the zoysia to thick for it to spread
It sounds like you may have thoughts on a reno at some point. What about an overseed, once you get some weed issues better under control? I will be trying to beat back some Zoysia with Tenacity to keep it under control, and get my kbg to spread. Maybe and idea for you? I'm very curious about something, however. Did you previously have a pool over the large round green area?

One of the techniques I have used to combat Zoysia, is to use cultural practices to favor cool season grasses. Mowing high and fertilizing in the cooler spring and fall months. Sometimes, this meant my hellstrip getting a little less fertilizer, since I skipped a late spring/early summer app. I think this helped a little bit.
Yes the round green area was a pool. Last couple of years I have been cutting low and using organic fertilizer during the summer just 2 applications to get the zoysia to spread. I figured it's easier embrace it then fight it. The wife and I are on the fence about putting in a built in pool so really haven't addressed the backyard besides a patio and a fence.
Front Hancock PRG ,summer tall fescue mix. Backyard zoysia and cool season mix.

M32075
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 7:46 am
Location: Plainview Long island NY 11803
Grass Type: Ft prg. Bk zoysia cool season
Lawn Size: 4000
Mower: Craftsman rotary

Re: Chris LI's Lawn Journal

Post by M32075 » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:24 pm

g-man wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:04 pm
@M32075 if all the brown is nimblewill, then I think round up is the best option.
It's mostly zoysia. Nimble is only in the cool season area mostly in the right side top corner.
Front Hancock PRG ,summer tall fescue mix. Backyard zoysia and cool season mix.

Green
Posts: 4140
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:27 am
Location: CT (Zone 6B)
Grass Type: KBG, TTTF, TTPR, FF-diff mixes
Lawn Size: 15K
Mower: Toro 22", MTD 21", Fiskars 18"

Re: Chris LI's Lawn Journal

Post by Green » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:15 pm

Chris LI wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:51 pm
I took several soil temps (front and back) today around 3 pm with all at 48* +/- 0.3*. I was thinking about trying a test plot or two where I dropped winterizer, but now I don't know if I'll have time. I would have mowed to bag leaves and check clippings today, but it was way too wet.
You should! Sort of the opposite to what I'm doing (a no-N test plot, etc.) Even if you don't get to it until Monday evening, you should be able to still do a test plot before the snow/ice/whatever, since as of now they're saying it might not start until late at night. I think you can bank on it being cold enough to really limit further growth going forward, even if growth isn't 100% stopped just yet. Or, if you don't get to it and the soil stays warm enough, you could do it another time if you don't get to it.

As far as growth stopping, I don't find that growth really 100% stops over Winter, anyway...during those inevitable warm-ups throughout the Winter, it seems to always green up and grow a tiny bit (we're talking millimeters or less) because the top layers of soil seem to thaw. You can tell because areas that you edged get slightly shaggy, etc.
Last edited by Green on Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Front: Northern mix - mostly TTTF, KBG, TTPR. Back: Firecracker and Bullseye TTTF with America, Rugby 2, Bewitched KBG. Upper Side: Mostly TTPR, KBG. Lower Side: similar to front. Low-input: TF/FF, KBG, PR. Always seeding somewhere or fighting Triv.

Chris LI
TLF Supporter
Posts: 981
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:04 am
Location: Long Island, NY
Grass Type: KBG,TTTF, FF-different mixes
Lawn Size: 5K
Mower: Snapper Hi Vac 21"

Re: Chris LI's Lawn Journal

Post by Chris LI » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:40 pm

Green wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:15 pm
Chris LI wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:51 pm
I took several soil temps (front and back) today around 3 pm with all at 48* +/- 0.3*. I was thinking about trying a test plot or two where I dropped winterizer, but now I don't know if I'll have time. I would have mowed to bag leaves and check clippings today, but it was way too wet.
You should! Sort of the opposite to what I'm doing (a no-N test plot, etc.) Even if you don't get to it until Monday evening, you should be able to still do a test plot before the snow/ice/whatever, since as of now they're saying it might not start until late at night. I think you can bank on it being cold enough to really limit further growth going forward, even if growth isn't 100% stopped just yet. Or, if you don't get to it and the soil stays warm enough, you could do it another time if you don't get to it.

As far as growth stopping, I don't find that growth really 100% stops over Winter, anyway...during those inevitable warm-ups throughout the Winter, it seems to always green up and grow a tiny bit (we're talking millimeters or less) because the top layers of soil seem to thaw. You can tell because areas that you edged get slightly shaggy, etc.
I wish I could have done the test plots, but weather, life, holidays, etc. got in the way and I missed the boat. I will definitely consider it for next year.

I'm still keeping an eye on the softball sized biosolids heavy drop, to see what happens. It's still the greenest spot in that area of the backyard.

Chris LI
TLF Supporter
Posts: 981
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:04 am
Location: Long Island, NY
Grass Type: KBG,TTTF, FF-different mixes
Lawn Size: 5K
Mower: Snapper Hi Vac 21"

Re: Chris LI's Lawn Journal

Post by Chris LI » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:16 pm

Other than occasional stick and debris pickup, and scouting/hand picking Chickweed, I'm done for the season. The weather was warm enough, with some turf growth, but I never got the last mow in that I was hoping to do.

However, I haven't lost the itch for lawn care. I've been doing my homework for short and long term projects.

My short term project is a sprayer upgrade, as I hope to move towards utilizing more spray apps next year. Initially, I was thinking of purchasing a battery powered sprayer. However, I'm shying away from them due to cost and reliability issues I've discovered through research. Since my 15 year old 2.5 gallon sprayer is still holding up, I'm planning on a DFW wand upgrade, instead.

The long term project I'm considering (more like a pipe dream at this point), is acquiring a powered reel mower.

At first, I was interested in a JD 220E (Weeks Auction had my mouth watering), with swapping the fairway bedknife to obtain close to 1.5" HOC, but its probably not quite high enough to contend with unevenness, surface tree roots, and the level of care I can maintain throughout the summer (mowing frequency, irrigation, etc.).

Reevaluating my goals, I think a Tru-Cut H20 or P20 series (with added front roller) is a more realistic expectation of a nice mower to fulfill my needs. On the highest setting of the high range of the high set of mounting holes, I should be able to obtain 2.25" HOC. I can swap to my rotary for peak summer to go to 3", if necessary. There's lots of great info on the Tru-Cuts on TLF. Thanks, guys! Now I need just three things...funds, blessing from my better half, and most importantly, a reasonably priced working unit that is available less than 600-800 miles away! I'll keep looking and planning. The Swardsmans are really cool, but out of my price range.

User avatar
Vtx531
Posts: 133
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Location: SW Michigan
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Re: Chris LI's Lawn Journal

Post by Vtx531 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:36 pm

I wonder if reel mower is really needed for anything 1.5” and above? Adding a roller to the back of your rotary might be the ticket for you.
Lawn journal please comment - viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11321

Chris LI
TLF Supporter
Posts: 981
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:04 am
Location: Long Island, NY
Grass Type: KBG,TTTF, FF-different mixes
Lawn Size: 5K
Mower: Snapper Hi Vac 21"

Re: Chris LI's Lawn Journal

Post by Chris LI » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:32 pm

Vtx531 wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:36 pm
I wonder if reel mower is really needed for anything 1.5” and above? Adding a roller to the back of your rotary might be the ticket for you.
Thanks for the suggestion. Actually, I do have the Toro Linestriping system and love it! I would like to try a powered for a few reasons:

1. cleaner cut with less injury to the leaf blade

1a. with less injury, hopefully a healthier,
denser canopy and less opportunity for
pathogens to enter plant, resulting in
less pesticides to correct issues

2. more even cut

3. less chance of scalping at a slightly lower
HOC (lawn is uneven)

4. long term goal of gradually
lowering/leveling/repeat to lower HOC to 1"
(or possibly lower)

Chris LI
TLF Supporter
Posts: 981
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:04 am
Location: Long Island, NY
Grass Type: KBG,TTTF, FF-different mixes
Lawn Size: 5K
Mower: Snapper Hi Vac 21"

Re: Chris LI's Lawn Journal

Post by Chris LI » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:28 pm

So I lied.

I thought I was done for the season, but with 68*-69* today, it was t-shirt and jeans weather. This was either the last mow of the season and/or the first mow of the new season.

I broke out the Snapper and double cut the front, first at 2.5" to bag up debris, then at 2" to see how many clippings I had since the last mow on 12/7. After dropping to 2", I had 1" clippings, so it was well worth it. I considered dropping it one more notch to 1.5", but I didn't want to take a chance of scalping.

Back was also bag mowed at 2", which cleaned it up nicely, since it was last cut at 2.5".

The color has faded, but it was definitely not a charity mow. FYI-the last photo has the biosolids spot towards the center I have mentioned.

Boy, that felt good! I've NEVER mowed in January before. I hope it keeps me going until March.

Image

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Green
Posts: 4140
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:27 am
Location: CT (Zone 6B)
Grass Type: KBG, TTTF, TTPR, FF-diff mixes
Lawn Size: 15K
Mower: Toro 22", MTD 21", Fiskars 18"

Re: Chris LI's Lawn Journal

Post by Green » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:31 pm

Hey Chris. Unbelievable, isn't it?

How did you get an inch of clippings at 2.0 if you mowed at 2.5 first and then 2.0? Did you piece together the two halves? Or save some area unmowed at 2.5? Lol.

I was tempted, but it was not necessary in my case, or practical, as there was not time, the equipment was clean and run out of gas, and by taking off a bit it would lose protection from the cold. Mine did not grow anywhere near as much as yours did over the past month and a half...and only parts of the front and side did...definitely not the back.

That said, I have little doubt there will be a January mow someday for me, as well, since the climate is so much more variable these days and as time goes on.

What I do think, is my first mow of the year is likely to be in the late Winter by a significant margin. I once mowed in late Feb. a few years ago, and feel that could happen again this year; even if we have a cold Feb into March as predicted, I will likely get out out there on the first few dry days after any snow melts, and mow in the front. That said, it's also possible that the extra bit of Winter growth could simply desiccate and shrivel up during the rest of Jan and Feb, so I won't have to mow until March.
Last edited by Green on Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Front: Northern mix - mostly TTTF, KBG, TTPR. Back: Firecracker and Bullseye TTTF with America, Rugby 2, Bewitched KBG. Upper Side: Mostly TTPR, KBG. Lower Side: similar to front. Low-input: TF/FF, KBG, PR. Always seeding somewhere or fighting Triv.

M32075
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 7:46 am
Location: Plainview Long island NY 11803
Grass Type: Ft prg. Bk zoysia cool season
Lawn Size: 4000
Mower: Craftsman rotary

Re: Chris LI's Lawn Journal

Post by M32075 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:13 pm

I was tempted to pull out the lawnmower but decided not to but wish I did for a quick cleanup. But had to take down the Christmas lights,wash three cars and clean the outside house windows.
Front Hancock PRG ,summer tall fescue mix. Backyard zoysia and cool season mix.

Chris LI
TLF Supporter
Posts: 981
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:04 am
Location: Long Island, NY
Grass Type: KBG,TTTF, FF-different mixes
Lawn Size: 5K
Mower: Snapper Hi Vac 21"

Re: Chris LI's Lawn Journal

Post by Chris LI » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:03 pm

@Green
Good catch on the math! I didn't put the clippings against a ruler, but I think I have a reasonable explanation (and if you buy that, a bridge to sell, Lol).

Seriously, the clippings may not have been a full inch, but close to it, for the following reasons:

1. I don't believe the notches for the height adjustments are incrementally by the half inch. The 2.5" setting (middle - #4 of 7) is slightly higher at about 2.625" (2-5/8"), but I got tired of typing that much and figured most folks would relate better anyway. The setting lower does seem to be 2".

2. At the 2" setting the suction is even more impressive, so I think it stands the grass blades up a smidge more to take that extra little bit off (I lost a chunk of entrance mat to the sunroom yesterday and would have lost the whole thing, jamming up my mower, if I hadn't stomped on it and pushed the mower away).

3. I cut diagonally on the second pass and picked up some grass that might have had a lean to it from: wheel tracks, undulations, etc. I love making the second cut at a different angle and really can see a more uniform height.

Chris LI
TLF Supporter
Posts: 981
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:04 am
Location: Long Island, NY
Grass Type: KBG,TTTF, FF-different mixes
Lawn Size: 5K
Mower: Snapper Hi Vac 21"

Re: Chris LI's Lawn Journal

Post by Chris LI » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:08 pm

M32075 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:13 pm
I was tempted to pull out the lawnmower but decided not to but wish I did for a quick cleanup. But had to take down the Christmas lights,wash three cars and clean the outside house windows.
I know what you mean. I had planned on taking outside Xmas decorations down, covering the patio set with a tarp, etc., but it was just way too nice to start with those things (I eventually did them too [at least most of them], into the dark).

The lawn nut in me took over and I reprioritized my list. :lol:

Chris LI
TLF Supporter
Posts: 981
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:04 am
Location: Long Island, NY
Grass Type: KBG,TTTF, FF-different mixes
Lawn Size: 5K
Mower: Snapper Hi Vac 21"

Re: Chris LI's Lawn Journal

Post by Chris LI » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:36 pm

Since the reel mowing bit me, I figured that I would play around with my vintage 1950's Folate push reel mower. Last winter, I purchased a backlapping kit, but didn't get a chance to use it. I looked into this fall, but didn't want to take the side case off to hook up a drill for fear of breaking something that I couldn't replace.

I thought about it and decided to adjust the reel to bedknife, since they weren't making any sort of contact. Since I lubed it up last fall, all I had to do was use a deep 5/8" socket. A couple of adjustments with several passes back and forth on my 150' sidewalk and I had much better contact. I decided not to try to cut paper yet, until I get most of the rust off. I sprayed it down with PB Blaster for storage. We'll see what happens.

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