Help Identify (FIGA, FIGB, FIGC)

Need help identifying a weed?
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Topic Author
wildneg
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:31 pm
Location: Lake County, Indiana
Grass Type: TTF KB
Lawn Size: 2.5 Acres
Mower: Apex 60 - 60" Zero Turn

Help Identify (FIGA, FIGB, FIGC)

Post by wildneg »

Purchased the house about 4 years ago and finally trying to get the yard cleaned up. I've been trying last year and this year to identify some of the main 'weed grasses' and having some trouble. Once I identify, I can start trying to get rid of it. I have three main ones and thought I would break it out as such.
FYI, cool season yard up in norther Indiana.

Figure A
This one is kind of spread throughout the 2 acres. Usually it is in a patch and spreading. You do not notice it too much but with this lack of rain the past month or so, it kind of shows up. It is a darker green, very similar to the Jonathan Green mix I've been planting (but obviously not fescue). I do have one spot that is VERY bad near a side road where rain water flows across to get to a small creek when it rains. I've since put catch basins in and have ran all underground piping to keep water from flowing across the yard and/or sitting. But again, you can find it scattered throughout the yard too, in dry spots. I was thinking Nimblewill but not 100% sure. Thoughts?

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This picture is not from the same spot the others were taken. This is the one near the side road mentioned above. It is extremely thick in this area and nothing else really can grow thru.

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Figure B
This one I thought was just in one main area (with small gaps) but the more I walk the yard thru this lack of rain we have had, I'm noticing some small spots around. This one is very 'matted'. When I mow, it looks even but as soon as you go over to move it around (or just try raking it), it'll pull up off the ground and stick up much higher then the rest of the grass. Again, this was in an area where rain water would usually sit and drain near on it's way to the creek (opposite of the yard as FigA). I have put a 12x12 catch basin as the low spot here and it has kept the water from flowing across here too. But one thing I do notice about these spots of grass (which some are about 10' x 10' chunks), after it rains, it stays soggy. I honestly think the water just doesn't really make it past the very thick root system. If I recall though, root system is usually shallow and I can pull it up.

No idea really on this one. I go back and forth with various websites in hopes I can identify. I keep thinking it is Creeping Bentgrass but really not sure. What confuses me too, is FigC I thought was the same. But these blades of grass are much thinner. Very fine grass, feels and looks like new grass seed that is just coming up. I didn't notice really any seed stalks (or any actually) with these batches. But for FigC, kind of similar but thicker blades and I'm noticing seed stalks with them now. So I think they may be different which is why I broke it out on this post. Thoughts?

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Figure C
And then we have C. Again, similar to B but blades are wider/fatter. It has the same texture if I recall, like new grass seed coming up. I'm noticing a lot of seed heads with these batches in the grass. near the ground, it is very thick. Looks like it is much thicker then what I saw with B. It is growing near the same area as B as well. I have some other spots scattered throughout the yard, but none of those spots are anywhere as big as the ones in this area. Any thoughts on any of these, I would greatly appreciate it. I need to try identifying ASAP so I can start making a plan for the rest of the summer, fall and into next spring. I'm also trying to fix some mistreated spots by prepping and reseeding. Some spots have some of these weeds in there that I've pulled up or sprayed. Hoping nothing is poa triv though. Read my fair share of posts about that!

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LeeB
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:20 am
Location: Wisconsin
Grass Type: Rye, fescue, KBG
Lawn Size: 40 kft²
Mower: John Deere E160

Re: Help Identify (FIGA, FIGB, FIGC)

Post by LeeB »

Exhibit A
I'll agree with you there, looks like it could be nimblewill. You'll notice it starts and ends the season brown and really starts going in the middle of summer, whereas your fescue should stay partially green year round. Tenacity should work well on this if it's nimblewill.

Exhibit B
Hard to tell, I think it's Poa trivialis but it could just be regular kentucky bluegrass too. Bentgrass is possible—it would pretty pronounced lines/ridges in the leaf (venation) but I'm not really seeing that (need a close-up).

Exhibit C
This one is looking a lot like Poa annua to me. Seed heads and lime green color give it away.

Here's a great guide for detailed identification: https://buckeyeturf.osu.edu/pdf/01_turf ... cation.pdf

You can try Tenacity on all three and see what happens, but I think you have a pretty significant poa infestation that's probably going to require multiple roundup applications to fix completely.

Fixing drainage to avoid saturated soils will also help prevent poa growth in the future.

Topic Author
wildneg
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:31 pm
Location: Lake County, Indiana
Grass Type: TTF KB
Lawn Size: 2.5 Acres
Mower: Apex 60 - 60" Zero Turn

Re: Help Identify (FIGA, FIGB, FIGC)

Post by wildneg »

I had a chance to go out yesterday evening and pull some up to check closer. I was able to pull up some FIB B and FIG C. Disclaimer, please disregard my improper use of the terms if I'm not getting it right...

From what I have read (though oddly, some contradict others), the Poa Annua, at a node, has a membranous ligule and from photos and identification, come almost right off the stem. The Poa Trivialis has no real ligule and comes off the stem more then the Poa Annua before the blade of grass starts. When I was out yestrday, I was trying to pull some up with seed. It does fit the Poa Annua style. I could see the very short portion coming off the stem before the leaf begins. I found those all evening out there. I have alot... I'll just leave it at that. Though I should be happy since Poa Annua is much more manageable then the Triv.

I kept trying to find some Triv but the only thing I was able to find that matched is (I THINK) KBG. I say that because it was nowhere near the lime/bright green the Poa Annua was. It was darker and more close to the color of the fescue in my Jonathan Green Ultra mix.

I took some samples up of FIG A as well and a few other questionable weeds/grass but didn't have enough time to really examine yet. We also have tons of rain the next few days and everything has just greened up big time. We were pretty much in a drought for over a month.

So hopefully someone can provide some feedback on my approach here.

* Continue to search out Poa Triv and other identifiable weeds in the grass. I have already identified (or almost identified) that I have Creeping Bentgrass, Nimblewill. I also have a little Creeping Charlie and Clover to get rid of since last year when I started attacking them by spot spraying. I'm sure I have some other random weeds as well.

* Creeping Bentgrass / Nimblewill : I was planning on spraying after this rain (and it dries up just a bit), the entire lawn using my pull behind sprayer with Tenacity. This should start attacking the Creeping Bentgrass, Nimblewill and possibly Bermuda if there is any of that since some of it with Google Lens has told me Bermuda/Scutch Grass though not entirely sure. Most things I have read say to attack it when it is actively growing which is usually in summer. From what I can tell, it is all actively growing and some of it very aggressively since it has warmed up a bit and with this moisture, should get even more aggressive. I can then see what is reacting and go back in a few weeks to spot spray going forward, those areas that need it with the Bentgrass/Nimble/Bermuda. This will at least put me on a path to fight it each year, slowly removing what I can and over seeding what is left with more Jonathan Green Ultra. It will also help attack the other weeds in the yard (Clover/Creeping Charlie/etc).
- Is there anything I can add to my spray here to attack the Poa Annua directly? I know Tenacity has some impact on Poa Annua but told it wouldn't kill it. Maybe just stunt the growth, prevent more seeds from forming.

* Can I add triplet SF to the mix when I do my spraying? I ask because it works pretty well on some of the weeds I have out there when I have spot sprayed. I didn't want the combination to hurt the grass. I know on their own, the grass has held up (KBG and Tall Fescue). I thought why not. If I can hit everything now while the grass is growing and healthy, it'll put me in a better spot in the fall when I spray Triplet SF once more to get rid of any more Clover/Creeping Charlie.

* For the Poa Annua, plan is to put down some pre-emergent in late August, early September. I did notice the forum suggests 2 rounds of Mesotrione (Tenacity) and Ethofumesate. Since it suggest two rounds, when would I apply the first and then the second? If I apply the Meso/Etho, should I even apply
- I know Tenacity has the ability to be used as a Pre-Em and usually when I pick a bad spot in the yard to redo, once I have the seedbed done, I spray Tenacity over everything to prevent any weeds from coming up with the new grass AND attack any of the bad grass/weeds left. It gives the new grass a fighting chance. It has worked well. Again, Jonathan Green is what I use which has no fine fescues. With that being said, would I still be able to overseed in the fall? Or should I just wait this year? I do not want to waste any seed as it is expensive.
- If I wait this fall to over seed, I should still be able to pick some smaller spots to prep and plan prior to the fall since by then, the seeds would have all come up? I know it isn't ideal time to plan seed but I just keep it watered and maintain it till fall anyway. I've done that the past few years with good results. Bottom line, I should be able to plan what I can prior to laying any Pre-Em down as long as all the seeds start to come up?
- If I apply the Meso/Etho and depending on when I apply them, should I even apply triplet SF in the fall? Or any reason I couldn't mix it in with these other two when I spray?

* For the Poa Annua in the winter (after Meso/Etho wear off) and in the spring, I was planning on applying Prodiamine. I'm not sure of exact timing yet to apply in spring but I'm sure I can find some information. I know it is soil temperature based for most weed seeds. For the winter, I'll check the Meso/Etho to see how long it lasts and make a plan based on that. But sounds like if it wears off in 2 months, I apply Prodiamine. If that wears off in a month, apply again and just keep at it till Spring comes. At which point, I'll apply the last Prodiamine to cover me up till next fall. Hopefully this all sounds right.

Then as summer hits, I can re-evaluate the bentgrass, nimblewill, bermuda (if I have any of that) and anything else that is growing. I can then spot treat or plan on another Tenacity does in the summer when it is actively growing again. As I get through this, I'll be able to identify if I have any Triv and start a plan on that as well. I think the low hanging fruit is what I need to focus on to help find the harder weeds to address. I'm sure I'll have some left and it'll be like this for a few years (maybe longer). But key is to slowly reduce it's foot print.

And just an FYI, I'll also do the heavy fertilizing in the fall like I usually do.

Sorry for the long winded post! Just making sure I ask all the right questions and have a plan set. Any information will be greatly appreciated! Thanks all.

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