Feedback on Proposal?

Irrigation systems, sprinklers & other watering topics
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1028mountain
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Feedback on Proposal?

Post by 1028mountain »

I got couple proposal for irrigation...$5500 for 6k sqft of yard plus all my flower beds, can anyone tell if that is a good deal? They will do just the lawn for $3500 or the lawn plus my largest flower bed for $4100. I got another one for the same job for $6500 but I had to find and pay a plumber to install the back flow line.

Code: Select all

9                       1 Inch Control Valves
1000 FT          	1 Inch PVC Irrigation Pipe
250 FT			18/13 Conductor Irrigation Control Wire
105 FT			Irrigation Flex Pipe
3			Irrigation Valve Boxes
1			12 Zone Hunter PRO-C Automatic Controller
14			Hunter PGP Ultra Rotor Heads [Turf Areas]
0			MP Rotator Turf Heads
20			Hunter Pro Spray Heads     
1			Back Flow Preventer

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by hsvtoolfool »

Ther rule of thumb in my area is about $500 to $600 per zone....

9 valves x $600 = $5400

I don't know what your local labor prices are like, but for my region that estimate is about average.

However...that assumes they do the job right. Unfotunately, there's no "city inspectors" for irrigation installers, at least not in my region. The result is too many bozos calling themselves irrigation installers. Learn all you can about good irrigation so you can separate the good guys from the bad. I'd pay more for a genuine "pro".

For even coverage, the rotor heads must shoot onto all the neighboring heads. This is called "head to head" coverage. Too often, fly-by-night irrigation installers use too few heads. The heads are spaced so that the streams meet somewhere in the middle and you end up with dry spots or having to compensate by over-watering. They either don't know what they're doing, or they're just padding their profits.

So ask them about the head spacing and how many zones they plan to use for those lawn rotors. Get it in writing that all lawn heads will be spaced to hit the neighboring heads. Demand a guaranteed irrigation audit after the install with even coverage on the lawn. Walk away if they never head of an irrigation audit or try to tell you head-to-head coverage isn't needed.

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by 1028mountain »

@hsvtoolfool

Thanks man, all good points. The company has great reviews and is local so from what I can tell they appear to know what they are doing. Their quote was also $1000 less than a competitors quote.

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by dpainter68 »

1028mountain wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:53 am
I got couple proposal for irrigation...$5500 for 6k sqft of yard plus all my flower beds, can anyone tell if that is a good deal? They will do just the lawn for $3500 or the lawn plus my largest flower bed for $4100. I got another one for the same job for $6500 but I had to find and pay a plumber to install the back flow line.

Code: Select all

9                       1 Inch Control Valves
1000 FT          	1 Inch PVC Irrigation Pipe
250 FT			18/13 Conductor Irrigation Control Wire
105 FT			Irrigation Flex Pipe
3			Irrigation Valve Boxes
1			12 Zone Hunter PRO-C Automatic Controller
14			Hunter PGP Ultra Rotor Heads [Turf Areas]
0			MP Rotator Turf Heads
20			Hunter Pro Spray Heads     
1			Back Flow Preventer
Any idea what your water pressure and available flow is? 9 zones for 6k sqft seems like a lot to me. Have a lot of flower beds by any chance?

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by 1028mountain »

Lots of pressure at the bibs like 40-60PSi depending on which one I test from. Not sure how to test available flow? I have a fair amount of flower beds...green is grass and blue are flower beds. The cross hatched areas are gravel driveways.

They came back and said they would do everything for $5250 (9 zones). I asked them to confirm head to head as well as an audit but waiting to hear back.

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by hsvtoolfool »

You won't need to worry about these details since your installer hopefully knows their stuff. That said...

Ignore the hose bibs...too many restrictions and twisty turns. Flow and pressure are measured from the main supply pipe between the meter and your house. That's where your irrigation system gets water. Many city folks install a dedicated water meter just for the irrigation to avoid sewage treatment charges. I have a septic tank, so I didn't need a separate meter.

If you're interested, read the Jess Stryker irrigation tutorials for details...

https://www.irrigationtutorials.com/

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by 1028mountain »

I’m on a well of that matters?

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by hsvtoolfool »

For the MP Rotators, be sure to install a 100 mesh filter in the main line. They are more sensitive to sand and dirt than big rotor nozzles. Otherwise, I have no experience with well pumps flow and pressures. Anyone else?

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by Bermuda_Triangle »

I found this site to be very informative: https://www.irrigationtutorials.com/

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by RDZed »

Late to the party but definitely get the Hunter Hydrawise Controller. I didn't when I had my system installed last year and regretted it. Its worth its weight in gold with conserving water.

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by hsvtoolfool »

RDZed wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:22 pm
Late to the party but definitely get the Hunter Hydrawise Controller.
I'm glad the Hydrawise is a viable option, but Rachio and Rainmachine are also highly regarded "smart" controllers. I've chosen the Rainmachine and may try to get integrate it with a Personal Weather Station this Winter as a fun electronics project. Others here have already done this with the Rachio.

Personally, I'll never use or recommend another Hunter controller due to my poor experiences with their old "Pro-C" line. I love Hunter valves and sprinkler products, but they should be ashamed of those awful, overpriced controllers they sold for a decade.

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by avionics12 »

I'd recommend Pro-C line all day long. Got great service from it, however...

I'm about to install my third location RainMachine connected to my Davis Weather Station. Fun off season project. I didn't go Hydrawise because of ancillary fees. They do have a great User Interface though.

Forgot to say...RainMachine is coming into HomeKit for those of us with that inclination.
Last edited by avionics12 on Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by RDZed »

hsvtoolfool wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:56 am
RDZed wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:22 pm
Late to the party but definitely get the Hunter Hydrawise Controller.
I'm glad the Hydrawise is a viable option, but Rachio and Rainmachine are also highly regarded "smart" controllers. I've chosen the Rainmachine and may try to get integrate it with a Personal Weather Station this Winter as a fun electronics project. Others here have already done this with the Rachio.

Personally, I'll never use or recommend another Hunter controller due to my poor experiences with their old "Pro-C" line. I love Hunter valves and sprinkler products, but they should be ashamed of those awful, overpriced controllers they sold for a decade.
Dude, he's already been quoted a Hunter 12 Zone Pro-C Auto (aka static)controller. I'm urging him to bump up to a smart controller. That's all.

Sorry you've had a bad time with Hunter. I've had either Rainbird or Hunter for over 40 years and never had a problem with either.

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by 1028mountain »

@RDZed

Thanks mang. They came back and clarified their proposal will do every bit of yard for $4100 or the entire yard and every bed for $6800. 6 vs 12 zones. Obviously a better deal to do all of it but I already have sprinkles in the garden that I installed hanging off battery powered timers that work just fine. If I just did the yard at 6 zones that is $685 per zone which is high as s--- IMHO when they can do 12 at $566 per. $566 x 6 would be $3300 for just the yard.

This isn't an accurate representation but one thing that seemed overkill was the 4 heads in the small lawn to the right of the path (lower right). But this gives you an idea of what they were originally going to do (no irrigation in the small dotted line planters). Tried to tell me they could use the lawn sprinklers to water those areas but I don't want that. All the dotted ares are beds and the two long rectangle areas are beds as well. This map doesn't show the yard on the right side or back right corner.

Image
Last edited by 1028mountain on Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by 1028mountain »

Got another proposal just for the lawn which seems like a good deal with wifi controller and the rain sensor.

Code: Select all

13 Hunter I-20 ADJU Gear Driven Rotor Heads
8 Hunter Pro-04 Pop Up Spray Heads
5 Hunter PGV-100G-S Control Valves
1 Mini Clik Rain Sensor
1 Hunter Pro-HC WiFi Irrigation Controller
1 Wilkins Backflow Prevention Device (Provided Only)
* Plumbing work to be done by others
IRRIGATION PRICE: $3,415.00
My neighbor (master plumber) said he would install the 3/4" with back-flow preventer for $100. Should that line be copper or CPVC? Irrigation guy said they prefer copper but plumber said that will freeze and asked if they could use CPVC. Anyone know?

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by jayhawk »

In my town, it's not copper at the meter.

Hydrawise is not that 'smart' imo but better than 'offline'. Chuck the rain sensor .....how often does rain occur when watering lawn? Smart controller should negate most chances.

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by hsvtoolfool »

The forum lacks a "like post" button, so....what Jayhawk said.

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by 1028mountain »

What’s a better smart controller that has an app?

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by corneliani »

1028mountain wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:53 am
I got couple proposal for irrigation...$5500 for 6k sqft of yard plus all my flower beds, can anyone tell if that is a good deal? They will do just the lawn for $3500 or the lawn plus my largest flower bed for $4100. I got another one for the same job for $6500 but I had to find and pay a plumber to install the back flow line.

Code: Select all

9                       1 Inch Control Valves
1000 FT          	1 Inch PVC Irrigation Pipe
250 FT			18/13 Conductor Irrigation Control Wire
105 FT			Irrigation Flex Pipe
3			Irrigation Valve Boxes
1			12 Zone Hunter PRO-C Automatic Controller
14			Hunter PGP Ultra Rotor Heads [Turf Areas]
0			MP Rotator Turf Heads
20			Hunter Pro Spray Heads     
1			Back Flow Preventer
Just as an FYI for what the materials cost on a project like this... I created a quick quote @ SiteOne with your material list and i'm at $565, plus tax (minus the backflow preventer + irrigation controller). If you were to add those in, materials itself (including the incidentals: fittings, glue, etc) you come out to approx $1000-1500 tops. The rest is labor. :shock: Now there's value in that labor and I don't mean to diminish that by any means, but don't let anyone make you feel like they're doing you any favors then. Demand what you pay for because if you won't they'll naturally find the easy way.

Now on to some more thoughts/details:
- determine your water flow & pressure BEFORE the pressure reducing valve, if at all possible. No use negotiating hard numbers if it all gets scrambled cause the water supply isn't as anticipated (usually meaning more/smaller zones to achieve the same coverage).
- shrubbery and plantings need half the water supply of turf, and if established may only need watering in the deepest droughts. The value proposition doesn't seem to be there ($2000 to supply underground irrigation to shrubs you may/may not need to water). It may depend on what kind of plantings you have. We have a heavily landscaped yard and I only irrigated the peonies and hydrangeas (plus the areas where my wife plants her annuals) and the rest I have the option to adjust my lawn heads to cover the established plants as needed. Just a thought.
- since it's only a few more cents per head, consider getting heads with check valves already installed - esp if you have a sloped yard. That eliminates water from continuing to flow out of the zone after a cycle ends (creates erosion plus runoff, etc) and just as importantly reduces the impact of water forcefully flowing back into the zone at the next cycle and shortening the life of the system.
- lastly, you mention your concern for having 4 heads in that small area - be mindful that more heads to create better/more efficient coverage is better that fewer heads that are inefficiently placed. Personally that's a sign of good design, imo, as it would be easier to 'get away' with 2 heads from an install perspective. More heads does not mean more water or more waste, etc. as 4 heads at 0.5 gal/hr spray the same water as 2 heads at 1 gal/hr.

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Re: Feedback on Proposal?

Post by 1028mountain »

@corneliani

Yeah I understand I am paying mostly for labor but I got no interest in doing this myself. Also I have irrigation in my flower beds already and they are pretty heavily landscaped as well with all types of plants (hydrangea's included). I also read online that per zone cost is roughly $300-400 but I am paying way more than that no matter who I ask for a quote.

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