Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Cool season grasses like Kentucky Bluegrass, Fescue & Rye
Topic Author
Oregonseed
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 10:06 pm
Location: Oregon
Grass Type: Tall fescue
Lawn Size: 1000
Mower: Hrx

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by Oregonseed »

pennstater2005 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:43 pm
Green wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:41 pm
pennstater2005 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:09 am
FYI:

Oregon Seed hasn’t posted in this thread for over 2 months.
This is a busy time for people in that industry, so I wouldn't be surprised if he pops up again in a week or two.
He has been logged on since then, just not posting.

Hey I'm here 😀 nobody asking (good) questions so I had nothing to post!

Topic Author
Oregonseed
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 10:06 pm
Location: Oregon
Grass Type: Tall fescue
Lawn Size: 1000
Mower: Hrx

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by Oregonseed »

tgreen wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:21 pm
@oregonseed Do you know how the germination % on the tag is determined? For example, if the germination rate is tagged at 80%, who actually determines that? Is it the distributor of the seed, e.g., Scott's or Pennington or is it determined by the grower? Thanks
Its determined by what lab the seed sample is taken to. They are generally privately owned and have nothing to do with who you bought the seed from. They are all accredited labs with years of experience, not some farmer or office guy writing fictious numbers on a tag!

A few hundred seeds are planted and then prechilled for a week (sometimes hot seed fresh out of the field does not germ well, I've seen this happen). Then they are given two weeks to "germinate" and the percentage is written down.

Socks
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:44 pm
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Grass Type: TTTF
Lawn Size: ~6k
Mower: Honda HRR216VKA

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by Socks »

I think this is in the spirit of this thread - I just bought a 25lb bag of super turf II ls to overseed with in a few weeks. Since it is a different TTTF blend from what I’ve been using (my lawn is pure TTTF though so same grass type) are there any additional steps you would recommend to help the newer blend and varieties take a larger hold over the older varieties for an overseed? I’m looking at a Reno for next year unless this overseed comes in perfect and a majority of the new blend takes hold, but wanted to increase my chances.

Link to blend https://unitedseeds.com/product/super-turf-ii-ls/

Green
Posts: 5994
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:27 am
Location: CT (Zone 6B)
Grass Type: KBG, TTTF, TTPR, FF-diff mixes
Lawn Size: 15K
Mower: Toro 22", MTD 21", Fiskars 18"

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by Green »

@Oregonseed, hope it's going well.

I had some annual ryegrass germinate from some 0/0 Blue Tag PR seed. I'm not sure which cultivar was contaminated, since I bought 3 different ones. Is there any way to track these things down, and is there any recourse or at least peace of mind that can be achieved? It definitely came from the seed; I've never had Annual Ryegrass before.
Last edited by Green on Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Front: Northern mix - mostly TTTF, KBG, TTPR. Back: Firecracker and Bullseye TTTF with America, Rugby 2, Bewitched KBG. Upper Side: Mostly TTPR, KBG. Lower Side: similar to front. Low-input: TF/FF, KBG, PR. Always seeding somewhere or fighting Triv.

rockinmylawn
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:02 pm
Location: CVA
Grass Type: TTTF
Lawn Size: 6.5K
Mower: Craftsman V60 Cordless SP

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by rockinmylawn »

If I am looking @ a particular seed in my local Southern State mix & the only reference to it on the NTEP database is from a 1998-2000 report.

Is that data too outdated to be useful?

Specifically, this is a Falcon III seed, so am afraid that there have been advances in testing methodology & even subsequent improvement of the Falcon cultivar since then to render that report outdated.

I also thought I saw a comment or report recently that said seed data from NTEP tests going back to 2008 are still relevant.

Topic Author
Oregonseed
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 10:06 pm
Location: Oregon
Grass Type: Tall fescue
Lawn Size: 1000
Mower: Hrx

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by Oregonseed »

Green wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:19 pm
@Oregonseed, hope it's going well.

I had some annual ryegrass germinate from some 0/0 Blue Tag PR seed. I'm not sure which cultivar was contaminated, since I bought 3 different ones. Is there any way to track these things down, and is there any recourse or at least peace of mind that can be achieved? It definitely came from the seed; I've never had Annual Ryegrass before.
Certified blue tag seed does not mean 0/0. Certified blue tag PRG allows up to 3% annual ryegrass, was it cover tagged as zero crop and weed? I would be interested to see a picture of the tags and annual in the lawn..there is a term called fluorescence in ryegrass. Do some research if you are bored.

Topic Author
Oregonseed
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 10:06 pm
Location: Oregon
Grass Type: Tall fescue
Lawn Size: 1000
Mower: Hrx

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by Oregonseed »

rockinmylawn wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:14 am
If I am looking @ a particular seed in my local Southern State mix & the only reference to it on the NTEP database is from a 1998-2000 report.

Is that data too outdated to be useful?

Specifically, this is a Falcon III seed, so am afraid that there have been advances in testing methodology & even subsequent improvement of the Falcon cultivar since then to render that report outdated.

I also thought I saw a comment or report recently that said seed data from NTEP tests going back to 2008 are still relevant.

I know yards that have falcon, it's a good variety. But only as good as you manage it! Dont forget that.

It is not old and fescue has not changed drastically since 2008. I would have no hesitation buying it...NTEP is a joke anyways. Read earlier posts

Green
Posts: 5994
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:27 am
Location: CT (Zone 6B)
Grass Type: KBG, TTTF, TTPR, FF-diff mixes
Lawn Size: 15K
Mower: Toro 22", MTD 21", Fiskars 18"

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by Green »

Oregonseed wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:16 pm
Green wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:19 pm
Oregonseed, hope it's going well.

I had some annual ryegrass germinate from some 0/0 Blue Tag PR seed. I'm not sure which cultivar was contaminated, since I bought 3 different ones. Is there any way to track these things down, and is there any recourse or at least peace of mind that can be achieved? It definitely came from the seed; I've never had Annual Ryegrass before.
Certified blue tag seed does not mean 0/0. Certified blue tag PRG allows up to 3% annual ryegrass, was it cover tagged as zero crop and weed? I would be interested to see a picture of the tags and annual in the lawn..there is a term called fluorescence in ryegrass. Do some research if you are bored.
Yes, it was all listed as 0/0. The thing is, I bought three different varieties and blended it myself, so I have no idea which one(s) have the contamination unless I do some testing.

Yes, it's annual ryegrass. Not too much, but enough to notice. It looks more like Tall Fescue in some respects than PR. But it came from huge seedlings. I've never seen it before.

I will try to get a shot for you, and I will look up the term.

Thanks.
Last edited by Green on Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Front: Northern mix - mostly TTTF, KBG, TTPR. Back: Firecracker and Bullseye TTTF with America, Rugby 2, Bewitched KBG. Upper Side: Mostly TTPR, KBG. Lower Side: similar to front. Low-input: TF/FF, KBG, PR. Always seeding somewhere or fighting Triv.

Green
Posts: 5994
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:27 am
Location: CT (Zone 6B)
Grass Type: KBG, TTTF, TTPR, FF-diff mixes
Lawn Size: 15K
Mower: Toro 22", MTD 21", Fiskars 18"

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by Green »

Hi @Oregonseed.

Is it possible to trace seed lots to determine if they're known to be contaminated? One of my 3 PR varieties is contaminated with annual ryegrass, and I am willing to bet it's either the Karma or Fiesta 4.

Additionally, do you know anything about America, Rugby II, or Bewitched KBG potentially having Triv contamination?

All seed is Blue Tag and marked 0 weed and 0 other crop.

Thanks.

Annual Ryegrass:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Seed tags:

Image
Last edited by Green on Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
Front: Northern mix - mostly TTTF, KBG, TTPR. Back: Firecracker and Bullseye TTTF with America, Rugby 2, Bewitched KBG. Upper Side: Mostly TTPR, KBG. Lower Side: similar to front. Low-input: TF/FF, KBG, PR. Always seeding somewhere or fighting Triv.

Topic Author
Oregonseed
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 10:06 pm
Location: Oregon
Grass Type: Tall fescue
Lawn Size: 1000
Mower: Hrx

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by Oregonseed »

Green wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:02 am
Hi @Oregonseed.

Is it possible to trace seed lots to determine if they're known to be contaminated? One of my 3 PR varieties is contaminated with annual ryegrass, and I am willing to bet it's either the Karma or Fiesta 4.

Additionally, do you know anything about America, Rugby II, or Bewitched KBG potentially having Triv contamination?

All seed is Blue Tag and marked 0 weed and 0 other crop.

Thanks.

Annual Ryegrass:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Seed tags:

Image
Both varieties have what I consider high fluorescence, anything over 1% you will probably see some off type grasses. Fluorescence can also change over time due to annual plants surving longer..the fluorescence level is set when the variety is developed. Like I said do some research on fluorescence it is a very complex subject.
Image

Image

Topic Author
Oregonseed
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 10:06 pm
Location: Oregon
Grass Type: Tall fescue
Lawn Size: 1000
Mower: Hrx

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by Oregonseed »

Green wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:02 am
Hi @Oregonseed.

Is it possible to trace seed lots to determine if they're known to be contaminated? One of my 3 PR varieties is contaminated with annual ryegrass, and I am willing to bet it's either the Karma or Fiesta 4.

Additionally, do you know anything about America, Rugby II, or Bewitched KBG potentially having Triv contamination?

All seed is Blue Tag and marked 0 weed and 0 other crop.

Thanks.

Annual Ryegrass:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Seed tags:

Image
Triv is the most difficult weed to control in bluegrass production, like poa in tall fescue. Just because the tag says it is crop and weed free is not 100% accurate. Out of 55,000lbs roughly 50 grams is analyzed...pretty high probability a weed seed or two can go un recognized end up in the bag you buy.

We often resample lots to get different results! One test will show poa so we resample and it comes back with no poa! We all know there is poa present but now can be sold as crop and weed free

Ecubed
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:44 pm
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Grass Type: Turf Type Tall Fescue
Lawn Size: 7,500 sq ft
Mower: Honda HRX217HYA

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by Ecubed »

Image
Hey there @@Oregonseed

I like to "google" my varieties in my seed and from the little research I've done it appears that Falcon IV and Rendition RX are rhizomatous Tall fescue. Do you have any knowledge about that being true? Thanks

User avatar
FuzzeWuzze
Posts: 843
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:41 pm
Location: Newberg, OR
Grass Type: F: Mazama, B:Mazama/Bewitched
Lawn Size: 2500sqft
Mower: Yard Machines 21" Rotary

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by FuzzeWuzze »

Another one for @Oregonseed. I purchased Mazama KBG directly from Vista Seeds who grows it. Bag said Origin: Oregon as i drove down to Shedd, OR and picked it up from their office.

Another user here bought straight Mazama through a distributor, but his bag said the Origin was Washington.

The kicker is, we had the exact same Lot #, exact same #'s across the board for germination/purity/weed/other/etc. How can the same Lot # originate in both Oregon and Washington on two different bags.
Last edited by FuzzeWuzze on Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:15 am, edited 3 times in total.

Topic Author
Oregonseed
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 10:06 pm
Location: Oregon
Grass Type: Tall fescue
Lawn Size: 1000
Mower: Hrx

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by Oregonseed »

Ecubed wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:51 pm
Image
Hey there @@Oregonseed

I like to "google" my varieties in my seed and from the little research I've done it appears that Falcon IV and Rendition RX are rhizomatous Tall fescue. Do you have any knowledge about that being true? Thanks
I believe the rendition is and falcon is not..dont quote me on it.

Topic Author
Oregonseed
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 10:06 pm
Location: Oregon
Grass Type: Tall fescue
Lawn Size: 1000
Mower: Hrx

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by Oregonseed »

FuzzeWuzze wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:12 am
Another one for @Oregonseed. I purchased Mazama KBG directly from Vista Seeds who grows it. Bag said Origin: Oregon as i drove down to Shedd, OR and picked it up from their office.

Another user here bought straight Mazama through a distributor, but his bag said the Origin was Washington.

The kicker is, we had the exact same Lot #, exact same #'s across the board for germination/purity/weed/other/etc. How can the same Lot # originate in both Oregon and Washington on two different bags.
Do you have a picture of the tags or know the lot number?

User avatar
FuzzeWuzze
Posts: 843
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:41 pm
Location: Newberg, OR
Grass Type: F: Mazama, B:Mazama/Bewitched
Lawn Size: 2500sqft
Mower: Yard Machines 21" Rotary

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by FuzzeWuzze »

Oregonseed wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:25 pm
FuzzeWuzze wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:12 am
Another one for @Oregonseed. I purchased Mazama KBG directly from Vista Seeds who grows it. Bag said Origin: Oregon as i drove down to Shedd, OR and picked it up from their office.

Another user here bought straight Mazama through a distributor, but his bag said the Origin was Washington.

The kicker is, we had the exact same Lot #, exact same #'s across the board for germination/purity/weed/other/etc. How can the same Lot # originate in both Oregon and Washington on two different bags.
Do you have a picture of the tags or know the lot number?
His bag (ksturfguy)
Image

My bag
Image
Last edited by FuzzeWuzze on Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Topic Author
Oregonseed
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 10:06 pm
Location: Oregon
Grass Type: Tall fescue
Lawn Size: 1000
Mower: Hrx

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by Oregonseed »

FuzzeWuzze wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:38 am
Oregonseed wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:25 pm
FuzzeWuzze wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:12 am
Another one for @Oregonseed. I purchased Mazama KBG directly from Vista Seeds who grows it. Bag said Origin: Oregon as i drove down to Shedd, OR and picked it up from their office.

Another user here bought straight Mazama through a distributor, but his bag said the Origin was Washington.

The kicker is, we had the exact same Lot #, exact same #'s across the board for germination/purity/weed/other/etc. How can the same Lot # originate in both Oregon and Washington on two different bags.
Do you have a picture of the tags or know the lot number?
His bag (ksturfguy)
Image

My bag
[img]https://i.postimg.cc/wxw0LpV9/2019-07-24-11-38-40.jpg[/img@Oregonseed


Hmm interesting. It is definitely a Washington lot number and was produced in washington, as a washington certified tag was granted. I'm assuming vista brought this lot down from washington and rebagged it into their own bag in oregon (I know the warehouse that does their blending) and slapped an oregon origin tag which is false. Origin stands for where it was produced so that is false labeling. I would call them...

User avatar
TomTurf
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:50 pm
Location: Tri Cities WA
Grass Type: 80% KBG 20% P-Rye
Lawn Size: 5000
Mower: Honda Rotary

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by TomTurf »

@Oregonseed

Question about whether KBG can out compete P Ryegrass in a newly renovated home lawn.

I'm in Eastern Washington state, so we do hit lows of 10F during the winters
typically, and 6 weeks of 95+ temps in mid summer. I have in-ground
irrigation and 5,000 of 60% KBG and 40% P Ryegrass at establishment
this fall. That's the plant ratio not the seeding weight ratio.

Question will I end up with 99% KBG in 3 to 5 years? That's what I've been told.

Thanks for info
Tom



Q
Image
Last edited by TomTurf on Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Topic Author
Oregonseed
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 10:06 pm
Location: Oregon
Grass Type: Tall fescue
Lawn Size: 1000
Mower: Hrx

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by Oregonseed »

TomTurf wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:24 pm
@Oregonseed

Question about whether KBG can out compete P Ryegrass in a newly renovated home lawn.

I'm in Eastern Washington state, so we do hit lows of 10F during the winters
typically, and 6 weeks of 95+ temps in mid summer. I have in-ground
irrigation and 5,000 of 60% KBG and 40% P Ryegrass at establishment
this fall. That's the plant ratio not the seeding weight ratio.

Question will I end up with 99% KBG in 3 to 5 years? That's what I've been told.

Thanks for info
Tom



Q
Image
Yeah, the kbg will certainly stick around longer than the p rye. I would be worried about the other crop and weed seed in the bag of seed you bought!

Green
Posts: 5994
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:27 am
Location: CT (Zone 6B)
Grass Type: KBG, TTTF, TTPR, FF-diff mixes
Lawn Size: 15K
Mower: Toro 22", MTD 21", Fiskars 18"

Re: Grass seed questions? ASK ME!

Post by Green »

@Oregonseed, speaking of weed and other crop, what kinds of weeds and other crop are usually in Tri-Rye blends? Years ago, I used to use Allied Seed Ryegrass (ASP6001, etc.) mixed with VNS KBG, and have a feeling a lot of the Poa Triv I have was from there. Since then, I've shyed away from those products. But they are some really good Ryegrasses, and I can get a Tri-blend of just the Ryegrasses without the KBG under the Agway brand (the name for the Southern States Cooperative in the North) brand. The thing is, they do have some weed and other crop percentages in them. Would I be highly risking more Triv again with just a Ryegrass blend and no KBG in it?
Last edited by Green on Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Front: Northern mix - mostly TTTF, KBG, TTPR. Back: Firecracker and Bullseye TTTF with America, Rugby 2, Bewitched KBG. Upper Side: Mostly TTPR, KBG. Lower Side: similar to front. Low-input: TF/FF, KBG, PR. Always seeding somewhere or fighting Triv.

DIY Lawn and Garden Products
Post Reply