PRG and KBG

Cool season grasses like Kentucky Bluegrass, Fescue & Rye
NJ-lawn
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PRG and KBG

Post by NJ-lawn » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:53 pm

I just did a 100% KBG Reno on my front lawn. It’s approx 2.5M/sqft. It worked out pretty good, needs some time to thicken up. SS1100 mix of Blue Note, Midnight, Bewitched and I mixed in some Mazama.

I’m wondering if I should introduce some PRG next fall as an over seed. I’ve seen some beautiful pics here where members did a mix of PRG and KBG. What would be pros and cons of adding PRG to my KBG?
Last edited by NJ-lawn on Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SNOWBOB11
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by SNOWBOB11 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:39 pm

NJ-lawn wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:53 pm
I just did a 100% KBG Reno on my front lawn. It’s approx 2.5M/sqft. It worked out pretty good, needs some time to thicken up. SS1100 mix of Blue Note, Midnight, Bewitched and I mixed in some Mazama.

I’m wondering if I should introduce some PRG next fall as an over seed. I’ve seen some beautiful pics here where members did a mix of PRG and KBG. What would be pros and cons of adding PRG to my KBG?
Pros would be a thicker lawn faster and the ability to repair areas quicker with rye because of its fast germination. It also stripes well.

Cons would be the potential need to overseed regularly because of winter damage and summer stress. Plus rye has ugly seed stalks in the summer.

Also rye is a sissy grass. Just ask @wardconnor.

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Babameca
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by Babameca » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:07 pm

@NJ-lawn Also, most varieties PRG grow faster. My mix had CSI, which is supposed to grow slower. Can't say much, this is also my 1st season.

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ryeguy
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by ryeguy » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:11 pm

It would make your lawn more inconsistent since you're adding a different grass type that will probably be a slightly different color and a different growth rate.

Like mentioned above, a big benefit of PRG is how quickly it establishes, but you just did a 100% KBG reno so that shouldn't matter. In general, I don't see a reason to overseed your new lawn (KBG or otherwise) unless the seed got washed out or didn't come in or something like that. KBG spreads nicely when you give it nitrogen.

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Babameca
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by Babameca » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:45 am

@ryeguy A naked eye won't tell a difference of mixed PRG or mono. Not from standing up. It will add a slightly different 'hue' to the stand, but elite PRG and KBG are very close color wise to start with. A fast establishment makes it great choice for over seeding. I am a strong believer that mono is a pride thing. It is very difficult to grow and keep in shape vs a mix that will combine all pros (and cons of course) of different grasses. I hope my PRG survives the winter (which I doubt) and do a comparison with a mono I plan to do on little test plot next year.

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g-man
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by g-man » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:31 am

I can tell the difference of a kbg vs a kbg/prg or no mix. Prg grows at a faster rate than kbg and using pgr is hard since you either overregulate the kbg or underregulate the prg. PRG does have that shine that makes a lawn pop, but I like the consistency of just kbg.

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SNOWBOB11
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by SNOWBOB11 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:52 am

You can definitely tell the difference between all KBG vs KBG PRG. And the continuity in color of a monostand (all one cultivar) you certainly can tell as well.

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Babameca
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by Babameca » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:08 am

@g-man @SNOWBOB11 You both are, I would call it 'pros'. In a way, that your eye and knowledge about turf is way beyond the 95%, g-man in particular. I, by the way, like more the matt dark look of KBG vs PRG.

Scagfreedom48z+
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by Scagfreedom48z+ » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:51 pm

Not trying to derail the thread but it seems fairly easy to find clean elite KBG seed, that obviously comes with a high price. One thing I have noticed is finding elite PRG with “0% other crop and noxious weed”. I’ve looked into SSS and even they have don’t have a 0%.

Has anyone had experience in finding PRG with “0% noxious weed and other crop” sod quality PRG ?

Wolverine
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by Wolverine » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:22 pm

Scagfreedom48z+ wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:51 pm
Not trying to derail the thread but it seems fairly easy to find clean elite KBG seed, that obviously comes with a high price. One thing I have noticed is finding elite PRG with “0% other crop and noxious weed”. I’ve looked into SSS and even they have don’t have a 0%.

Has anyone had experience in finding PRG with “0% noxious weed and other crop” sod quality PRG ?
I bought some Grand Slam GLD from United Seed April of 2019 and it was 0% weed seed 0% crop seed .76% inert matter

Green
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by Green » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:31 pm

All this talk about PR not surviving Summer and Winter has me scratching my head. I've had Winter and Summer kill, but it's been subtle...not like all the PR got wiped out in a year or anything. Powhatan has had Ryegrass in his mixture survive multiple days over 100, and many days above 90, without irrigation. I don't think some of you guys are giving Ryegrass enough credit...it's stronger than you think.
Front: Northern mix - mostly TTTF, KBG, TTPR. Back: Firecracker and Bullseye TTTF with America, Rugby 2, Bewitched KBG. Upper Side: Mostly TTPR, KBG. Lower Side: similar to front. Low-input: TF/FF, KBG, PR. Always seeding somewhere or fighting Triv.

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Babameca
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by Babameca » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:22 pm

@Green 2 years ago, We were at -5 Max (day temp) in December for 10 days straight. Not much snow on the ground. Then, 1 inch freezing rain and back down to -5. Cycle repeated few times that winter, to the point I had 3 feet of snow/ice in layers, where ice reached 1-2 inches in some of the layers. I don't know how any grass survived (40% simply gave up), but PRG is not up to this task IMO. I can still clearly see some old TTTF (or bunching...) in some older lawns in the neighborhood. If I was just a notch further south...those VT mountains change the whole extreme cold s**t so much.
Image
Last edited by Babameca on Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Green
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by Green » Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:17 am

@Babameca, -5F or -5C? Because we get high temps of -5C for days in row here as well in Jan and Feb. If you meant -5F though, that is crazy. We usually have at least a couple of nights per year that go down to -5F. I remember a day last year or the year before when the high was 11F.
Last edited by Green on Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Front: Northern mix - mostly TTTF, KBG, TTPR. Back: Firecracker and Bullseye TTTF with America, Rugby 2, Bewitched KBG. Upper Side: Mostly TTPR, KBG. Lower Side: similar to front. Low-input: TF/FF, KBG, PR. Always seeding somewhere or fighting Triv.

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Babameca
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by Babameca » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:39 am

@Green Farenheit… -20oC, we did not go above that for 10 straight days in mid December. Nights were of course 'cooler'... That, being unusual for December, is our normal for Jan-Feb. We will have 2-3 weeks in total with -5 down to -15F range. 50% of the time snow never melts for 3 months.

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FuzzeWuzze
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by FuzzeWuzze » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:56 am

Babameca wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:45 am
@ryeguy A naked eye won't tell a difference of mixed PRG or mono. Not from standing up. It will add a slightly different 'hue' to the stand, but elite PRG and KBG are very close color wise to start with. A fast establishment makes it great choice for over seeding. I am a strong believer that mono is a pride thing. It is very difficult to grow and keep in shape vs a mix that will combine all pros (and cons of course) of different grasses. I hope my PRG survives the winter (which I doubt) and do a comparison with a mono I plan to do on little test plot next year.
You'll be able to tell the difference because the PRG will grow faster in most cases. I dont believe most PRG is dwarf or compact like many Bluegrasses hes planting.

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Harts
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by Harts » Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:06 pm

@NJ-lawn I think the question that needs to be asked of you is, why are you thinking of adding PRG? Is it just to try it out or is there an underlying reason for doing so?

Depending on your answer, I'll say that it's a matter of personal preference and what level of "perfection" you are looking to attain.

I have a nomix lawn in my backyard which I'm quite happy with and I think the results posted in my journal speak for themselves. Sure, my grass grows at different rates and I'm certain the colour isn't 100% uniform. But it's good enough for me.

Alias-Doe
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by Alias-Doe » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:02 pm

I got 100% bewitched touching 100% Rye and I can easily tell the difference . Nothing comes close to the dark green/bluish color of KBG .

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g-man
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by g-man » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:31 pm

Pete's lawn with multiple cultivars is still young, but you can see the color differences at 19.41


Chris LI
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by Chris LI » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:47 pm

Alias-Doe wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:02 pm
I got 100% bewitched touching 100% Rye and I can easily tell the difference . Nothing comes close to the dark green/bluish color of KBG .
Can you post a photo? That would be the last nail in the coffin against overseeding rye into a 100% pure kbg stand. I'm trying PRG for the first time, only where I can't grow kbg.

@g-man
I noticed that too. My eyes almost popped out! This is a video worth watching. It got the gears turning in my head about DIYing a front broom for my rotary mower, after seeing that cool Allett rotary...not to mention looking at reel mowers.

dacoyne
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Re: PRG and KBG

Post by dacoyne » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:54 pm

PRG overseed, dont do it. If you just did a reno of kbg its going to be thin and it should be until it gets established in the spring. Keep it just KBG so your lawn all grows at the same rate. It'll fill in and thicken up like crazy in the spring just be patient for a few months. I know its hard, I was in your position and even used the same seed blend.

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