Spring 2019 - PreM time! (For some)

Cool season grasses like Kentucky Bluegrass, Fescue & Rye
User avatar
Pete1313
Moderator
Posts: 1454
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 6:55 pm
Location: Northwest Illinois
Grass Type: Bewitched KBG (2017 Reno)
Lawn Size: 38k sq ft
Mower: John Deere 2500B & X590

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by Pete1313 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:51 pm

g-man wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:11 pm
Some bad news. It seems like winter wants to stick around for a bit longer. This is the 8-14 day outlook temp map (dynamic, so it updates every day).

Image

GDD tracker is up and running, but it is still too early for PreM for us.
That map is depressing. :(
"The bluegrass of Kentucky. You don't notice no difference, that's because you don't have the eye!" - 29th Street

User avatar
SNOWBOB11
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:53 pm
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Grass Type: Bewitched front, NoMix back
Lawn Size: 3500
Mower: JD 220E, Yard Machines

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by SNOWBOB11 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:23 pm

Congrats on becoming a moderator @Pete1313. :thumbup:

User avatar
Pete1313
Moderator
Posts: 1454
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 6:55 pm
Location: Northwest Illinois
Grass Type: Bewitched KBG (2017 Reno)
Lawn Size: 38k sq ft
Mower: John Deere 2500B & X590

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by Pete1313 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:22 am

Thanks @SNOWBOB11!
"The bluegrass of Kentucky. You don't notice no difference, that's because you don't have the eye!" - 29th Street

User avatar
g-man
Moderator
Posts: 6525
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:32 pm
Location: Fishers, IN
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 5678
Mower: John Deere 220E

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by g-man » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:35 pm

PreM time is here. Thegrassfactor shared in youtube that in the TN area forsythia has flowered. GDDtracker has a few areas in the green (VA and KY). Therefore start making plans based on your area (sorry North Dakota at least 1.5months). Error in the side of early instead of late.

Image

Also, start think of preventive grub control (Scott's Grubex).

User avatar
craigdt
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:55 pm
Location: Kansas
Grass Type: Fescue
Lawn Size: 10000
Mower: Ferris IS600z

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by craigdt » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:07 pm

g-man wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:35 pm
PreM time is here. Thegrassfactor shared in youtube that in the TN area forsythia has flowered. GDDtracker has a few areas in the green (VA and KY). Therefore start making plans based on your area (sorry North Dakota at least 1.5months). Error in the side of early instead of late.

Image

Also, start think of preventive grub control (Scott's Grubex).
This is a good nudge in the right direction for those of us who are "newish" at this and nervous about the timings of everything.

I'm smack in the middle of Kansas.
If I'm mixing Dimension and Gallery this spring, would now be an okay time to apply?

I may need to do some seeding this fall, and I'm nervous about my app lasting too long.

Thinking about doing the max rate of both of those, for maximum control, I guess.
Azoxystrobin 22.9 Marketplace : $31/8oz, $48/16oz
Dithiopyr (Dimension) Marketplace : $23/4oz, $33/8oz, $52/16oz
Mesotrione (Tenacity) Marketplace : $24/4oz, $35/8oz, $54/16oz

Cool Season Lawn Guide, via g-man

jjepeto
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Grass Type: Bermuda (f), TF/KBG (b)
Lawn Size: 5,000 sqft
Mower: Ryobi 40v

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by jjepeto » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:20 pm

I wish GDD tracker worked for us in the south. Maybe a southern turfgrass school can make a similar tool.

User avatar
g-man
Moderator
Posts: 6525
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:32 pm
Location: Fishers, IN
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 5678
Mower: John Deere 220E

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by g-man » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:33 pm

@craigdt I don't know about gallery too much. Prodiamine is enough for me.

I would not recommend max annual rates. You get better control with split apps (now and in 6 weeks) at half rates.

Enter your ZIP code into the www.gddtracker.net and it will show you when it is early, optimal, late.

User avatar
g-man
Moderator
Posts: 6525
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:32 pm
Location: Fishers, IN
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 5678
Mower: John Deere 220E

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by g-man » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:35 pm

@jjepeto email them and ask for it. You could also email Bill Kreuser to add it to the greenkeeperapp too.

jjepeto
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Grass Type: Bermuda (f), TF/KBG (b)
Lawn Size: 5,000 sqft
Mower: Ryobi 40v

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by jjepeto » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:45 pm

g-man wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:35 pm
@jjepeto email them and ask for it. You could also email Bill Kreuser to add it to the greenkeeperapp too.
I'll email them and see what they say. http://www.gddtracker.net/premium-upgrade
Image

User avatar
craigdt
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:55 pm
Location: Kansas
Grass Type: Fescue
Lawn Size: 10000
Mower: Ferris IS600z

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by craigdt » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:12 pm

g-man wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:33 pm
@craigdt I don't know about gallery too much. Prodiamine is enough for me.

I would not recommend max annual rates. You get better control with split apps (now and in 6 weeks) at half rates.

Enter your ZIP code into the www.gddtracker.net and it will show you when it is early, optimal, late.
I was not necessarily meaning max annual rates... just trying to figure which program to use.
I have "tall" fescue, but its had a lot of weed pressure and its not what I would consider thick.

I'm thinking program C

Image
Azoxystrobin 22.9 Marketplace : $31/8oz, $48/16oz
Dithiopyr (Dimension) Marketplace : $23/4oz, $33/8oz, $52/16oz
Mesotrione (Tenacity) Marketplace : $24/4oz, $35/8oz, $54/16oz

Cool Season Lawn Guide, via g-man

User avatar
bmitch05
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:15 pm
Location: St. Louis MO
Grass Type: TTTF
Lawn Size: 5,500 sqft
Mower: Toro Timemaster

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by bmitch05 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:16 pm

Spring is finally starting to peek around the corner in STL so I had the itch to get out in the lawn on a 45* Monday night. I strapped on the brand new FZ backpack sprayer that has been sitting in my home office for months - mixed up an AIR-8 and Bifen cocktail and sprayed after the kids went to bed. I forgot how great it feels to be back in the lawn after a HARSH winter.

User avatar
g-man
Moderator
Posts: 6525
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:32 pm
Location: Fishers, IN
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 5678
Mower: John Deere 220E

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by g-man » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:41 pm

@craigdt per this report, I would do treatment 11 based on your product. This is two applications at 0.25lb of ai/acre rate. From your table, it is two plan A transition zone. One soon and one in 6 weeks.

https://turf.purdue.edu/report/2011/PDF ... 20apps.pdf

PS. Treatment 19 would be plan C (single application at 0.5ai/acre). Treatment 12 would be a single application of plan A (0.25ai/acre).

User avatar
bullet
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:13 pm
Location: Richmond, VA
Grass Type: TTTF / Rye mix
Lawn Size: 5,000 sq. ft.
Mower: Briggs & Stratton 21"

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by bullet » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:21 am

craigdt wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:07 pm
g-man wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:35 pm
PreM time is here. Thegrassfactor shared in youtube that in the TN area forsythia has flowered. GDDtracker has a few areas in the green (VA and KY). Therefore start making plans based on your area (sorry North Dakota at least 1.5months). Error in the side of early instead of late.

Image
This is a good nudge in the right direction for those of us who are "newish" at this and nervous about the timings of everything.
I am completely new at this. Actually this will be my first time, so let me tell you my situation and see if I'm doing this right. I live in Virginia, and we have a slight chance of showers at 3AM, and tomorrow scattered storms.

Image

Lastnight I picked up some supplies; Virgoro Crabgrass Preventer, Roundup For Lawns (Concentrate and RTU), Scott's Wizz and a 1 Gal. Sprayer.

In the Weed ID thread we discussed killing my current weeds with the sprayer. However, since it's supposed to rain, and the prem apparently works better with water, would tonight be a good night to do it?

Then I suppose over the weekend I can blanket spray my lawn with the Roundup?

I'm honestly really excited!

User avatar
g-man
Moderator
Posts: 6525
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:32 pm
Location: Fishers, IN
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 5678
Mower: John Deere 220E

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by g-man » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:27 am

I personally don't like to use rain unless I'm sure it is a very light rain (less than 0.5in). Too much rain or too fast leads to runoff, thus wasted product. I would wait after the rains and then use a sprinkler to water it in.

User avatar
bullet
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:13 pm
Location: Richmond, VA
Grass Type: TTTF / Rye mix
Lawn Size: 5,000 sq. ft.
Mower: Briggs & Stratton 21"

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by bullet » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:48 am

g-man wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:27 am
I personally don't like to use rain unless I'm sure it is a very light rain (less than 0.5in). Too much rain or too fast leads to runoff, thus wasted product. I would wait after the rains and then use a sprinkler to water it in.
I understand. The forecast graph (which is a pretty useful tool imo) says ~0.03in of rain, but i'm concerned it might be too much at once. Precipitation at 80% and "chance" of thunder in the afternoon.

Image

I know i'm not supposed to apply granules while it's wet, so I'll probably do it this weekend. I'll blanket spray with the herbicide tonight since the instructions say it's "Safe from rain after 3 hours".

Also, this is from https://www.weather.gov
Click on your region > Hour by Hour Forcast > Select City/Location
Then uncheck / check the things you want to display.
Last edited by bullet on Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:43 am, edited 8 times in total.

rockinmylawn
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:02 pm
Location: CVA
Grass Type: TTTF
Lawn Size: 6.5K
Mower: Craftsman

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by rockinmylawn » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:05 pm

jjepeto wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:45 pm
g-man wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:35 pm
@jjepeto email them and ask for it. You could also email Bill Kreuser to add it to the greenkeeperapp too.
I'll email them and see what they say. http://www.gddtracker.net/premium-upgrade
Image

Ugh, I didn't see last last disclaimer about southern transition zone (Richmond, VA area here) not being all that accurate & was planning to lay down my Pre_M this evening before tomorrow's rain.

Might just do a split app like g-man suggested & do the 2nd half 6 weeks down the line.
Last edited by rockinmylawn on Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
bullet
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:13 pm
Location: Richmond, VA
Grass Type: TTTF / Rye mix
Lawn Size: 5,000 sq. ft.
Mower: Briggs & Stratton 21"

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by bullet » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:42 pm

rockinmylawn wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:05 pm
Ugh, I didn't see last last disclaimer about southern transition zone (Richmond, VA area here) not being all that accurate & was planning to lay down my Pre_M this evening before tomorrow's rain.

Might just do a split app like g-man suggested & do the 2nd half 6 weeks down the line.
Hey, another RVA member! I was going to apply my pre_m tonight as well, but after some more research I believe you're supposed to wait 2 - 3 days after application to water it?

So instead I think i'm just going to blanket spray some herbicide (Roundup for Lawns), and do the pre_m this weekend.
Last edited by bullet on Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.

rockinmylawn
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:02 pm
Location: CVA
Grass Type: TTTF
Lawn Size: 6.5K
Mower: Craftsman

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by rockinmylawn » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:54 pm

bullet wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:42 pm
rockinmylawn wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:05 pm
Ugh, I didn't see last last disclaimer about southern transition zone (Richmond, VA area here) not being all that accurate & was planning to lay down my Pre_M this evening before tomorrow's rain.

Might just do a split app like g-man suggested & do the 2nd half 6 weeks down the line.
Hey, another RVA member! I was going to apply my pre_m tonight as well, but after some more research I believe you're supposed to wait 2 - 3 days after application to water it?

So instead I think i'm just going to blanket spray some herbicide (Roundup for Lawns), and do the pre_m this weekend.
Hey bullet, fellow RVA-er -
My Pre-M (prodiamine 65 WDG)says:

"4. Is most effective when the product is activated in the soil before weed seeds germinate and
within 14 days after application.
5. Is activated when the treated area receives at least 0.5 inch of irrigation or rainfall or shallow
(1 to 2 inches) mechanical incorporation"

Didn't get a chance to do it tonight so will try to hit tomorrow before the rains come.
Last edited by rockinmylawn on Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
bullet
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:13 pm
Location: Richmond, VA
Grass Type: TTTF / Rye mix
Lawn Size: 5,000 sq. ft.
Mower: Briggs & Stratton 21"

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by bullet » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:19 am

rockinmylawn wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:54 pm
Hey bullet, fellow RVA-er -
My Pre-M (prodiamine 65 WDG)says:

"4. Is most effective when the product is activated in the soil before weed seeds germinate and
within 14 days after application.
5. Is activated when the treated area receives at least 0.5 inch of irrigation or rainfall or shallow
(1 to 2 inches) mechanical incorporation"

Didn't get a chance to do it tonight so will try to hit tomorrow before the rains come.
Hmm I suppose it's different per brand, because I was reading instructions from Scott's Turf Builder "With Halts Crabgrass Preventer". Although, I opted to get the cheaper Vigoro brand instead (which doesn't have very good instructions). Either way I don't think it matters as long as the product ends up in the soil?

I spent all afternoon blanket spraying my lawn with herbicide. I'll probably apply the pre_m this weekend and water it down myself.
Last edited by bullet on Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
g-man
Moderator
Posts: 6525
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:32 pm
Location: Fishers, IN
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 5678
Mower: John Deere 220E

Re: Spring 2019 - Time to Prep

Post by g-man » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:14 pm

One of my goals this year to is provide more info for homeowner that just want a nicer lawn (Tier 1). Sometimes most of the members strive for the best yard and recommend the best product for the price (eg. Prodiamine 65WDG). Finding the active ingredients online for some of these products was very hard (zoom in into the images). Most include nitrogen and other nutrients in the bag, while not ideal (Tier 2), it is still ok. Timing on the PreM is key for them to work, with early being better.

If you want a simple approach, I would suggest getting one of these PreM (crabgrass preventers) from your local stores:

Menards
Menards Crabgrass Preventer - It uses 0.125% dithipyor. I would apply soon and then a second application of the same product in 8 weeks. Currently at $9 for 5ksqft.

Home depot
Vigoro Crabgrass Preventer - 1.29% Pendimethalin - It leaves some yellow stains. $18/ 5ksqft.

Scotts Crabgrass Preventer - - 1.29% Pendimethalin - It leaves some yellow stains. $25/ 5ksqft. Yes it is identical to the Vigoro for $8 more.

Lowes
Scotts Halt Preventer - 1.71% Pendimethalin This is one of the few without nitrogen. $18 for 5k sqft.

Sta-Green Crabgrass Preventer Crab-Ex - 0.37% Prodiamine $ 20 for 5ksqft

Walmart, Ace Hardware, Tractor Supply, Meijer, Costco, Sams Club, Fleet Farm, Rural king - They all have similar products. Look at the label for the active ingredient.

You can get these online (amazon), but you are likely paying a higher price since they factor in the shipping costs. This one from anderson is prodiamine only it is $30 for ~8k sqft. It is also a PreM only.


While you are out and buying stuff, also get your Grub Control product if you need to prevent them. I recommend Scott GrubEx - Amazon | Home depot | Lowes

Post Reply