Bob Loblawn's 2021 & 2022 100% KBG Renovation (Northern IL)

Bob Loblawn · Jul 18, 2021

Hi all- taking the plunge and going for a fall renovation in my backyard this year. Here are some details.

Northern IL (Chicago North suburbs)

Goal seed down date: Week of August 2nd pending conditions

Renovating about 2000 Sq Ft in back yard this fall. A little less than half of the yard, as I did a spring renovation in the other half, which is coming in pretty well despite some unusual weather.

We have been in this house for 3 years and the backyard had Poa Annua all over that I decided a reno was a better path to take versus controlling with prodiamine. Current grass is KBG/fine fescue along with maybe some PRG. I really think the old owners seeded Poa A at some point because it wasn't just small patches - it was massive patches. Or maybe they just did not pay much attention to the lawn for years and the Poa A just took off and thrived in the shadier/wet areas.

I did spray multiple tenacity apps last spring (2020) and prodiamine late last summer and another app in fall - while I know it's a long term approach to battling Poa A, it was just too much to handle. Most of it still came back in spring 2021. I know there will be plenty of Poa A seeds in the soil that will likely germinate during the renovation and pop up next spring. But my ambition is that it will be more manageable. I plan to fallow in case that helps with multiple glypho apps.

The fall renovation area is a good mix of sun and shade, but definitely enough sun to attempt 100% KBG mix. There are some areas that get more shade under the trees, so I will be keeping an eye out in case I need to toss in some fescue. But my hope is to avoid and let KBG spread.

I purchased a seed mixture of 3 elite varieties from SSS in late April:
-40% Bewitched
-40% Mazama
-20% Midnight

Hopefully the more shade tolerant Mazama (and Bewitched to some extent) will help the shadier areas under trees.

More to come in future posts - as I have begun the process, but will submit everything here for record keeping.

Bob Loblawn · Jul 18, 2021

Here is the plan:

Mostly following the @g-man plan in the renovation guide. I have an 11-month old so there are a few steps I may need to forgo (e.g. more than 2x glypho apps). I'm stilling working from home until after Labor Day, so have the ability to keep a close eye on the reno.

I'm not mowing low- I'm going with rotary and looking to keep around 3-3.5" depending on time of year.

Pre-renovation I cut the grass down to about 2.5". I started the height lowering process a bit late, but that was about as low as I could go before scalping. Kept it at this height to ensure it was still green and growing for a nice glypho app.

My plan is to get seed down first week of August.

Day 1: Glyphosate on 7/2 (COMPLETE). Sprayed 6 gallons of glypho at 3 tbsp/300 SF rate per gallon of water, which was what is on the product label (compare-n-save 41%). Here are some pics that include the marker dye demonstrating where the cut off point will be.

Bob Loblawn · Jul 18, 2021

7/10: by now, grass was looking nice and brown. Bag mowed the dead grass on 3rd then 2nd lowest setting to pick up as much as possible. I was running into some issues with the bagging on my mower - a good amount of grass was not getting sucked into the bag and acting like I was mulching. I took as a sign to sharpen my blades and spray the bag with some water to clean it out and help with airflow.

The week following we saw consistent rain and did not need to fallow much since the soil remained moist. The weather has been very weird this spring and summer. HOT and barely any in May and June. Then July hit and it cooled down and rained quite a bit. I'll take it I suppose.

7/16: grass is still very brown/dead looking. Very little areas of green/growth, despite the amount of precipitation over the last two weeks. Bag mowed on lowest setting - seems like bagging/mower issue from before has been solved. Although there is some grass that is still not bagging - perhaps this is just due to going so low and not getting my grass below 2.5" prior to the first glypho app.

By now I had planned for a second glypho app. However, the weather was too wet and I had to get stitches on my arm - would have been too much pressure carrying around the sprayer.

Stripes from 7/16 mow! I don't have a striper kit, so this is oddly satisfying to see.

Bob Loblawn · Jul 18, 2021

Remainder of plan:

This upcoming week (week of 7/19):
-This is where my plan deviates slightly from @g-man's guide - I started glypho a bit late (4 weeks prior to seed down), so I think I will only get two glypho apps down
-I'm not seeing much green pop up through the dead grass right now after two weeks after first application, so I do not think another app of glypho makes sense quite yet.
-I think I may try dethatching/scarifying/raking with SunJoe to pull up more of the dead grass and expose more soil. Added pictures below to show how much dead grass is still there. If I do this, I will likely keep fallowing and delay glypho app until a few days before seed down.
-Irrigation audit: ensure each area of the reno is covered by irrigation
-Seeds: weigh and get seed in baggies for more accurate
-Soil: as of right now, all seems OK with the soil. There may be a couple spots near concrete walkway that need some new
-Monitor the crap out of the weather forecast

Week of 7/26
-Fallow, fallow, fallow
-Watch forecast - I've always been eyeing the first week of August for seed down. But if we see favorable weather this week, I may aim for seed down a few days earlier. Right now forecast is in high 70s/low 80s. Pretty unlikely as my wife will be out of town this weekend (7/30-8/1) meaning I'm on dad duty and zero lawn work will get done aside from controlling irrigation from my phone.
-Irrigation won't be an issue and I am WFH for now - so monitoring isn't a worry. Fungus would be my biggest concern.

Week of 8/2: SEED DOWN! (if not done earlier)
-Rake the area, seed down, rake seed in and roll it in (plan to rent from Home Depot day of seeding)
-Spray tenacity
-No plan to add any type of fertilizer for phosphorus based on soil test

Weeks after seed down:
-I plan to follow @g-man renovation guide steps - so I will not list below. But there will be plenty of water, monitoring, drinking and probably praying to the grass gods. I plan to post updates accordingly.

Dead grass that remains after 7/16 mow (lowest setting)

g-man · Jul 18, 2021

If you look at the last image and the second to last, you will see green leaves. I think you should try to do more gly.

Liquidstone · Jul 18, 2021

Sounds like a good mix and that you have a solid game plan. Best of luck to you!

Bob Loblawn · Jul 18, 2021

g-man said:
If you look at the last image and the second to last, you will see green leaves. I think you should try to do more gly.

Thanks @g-man . I definitely plan on one more gly app. Do you think it is worth doing this week before raking up more dead grass?

I was thinking I would use the SunJoe dethatcher to clear the dead grass a bit more. Then fallow and gly closer to seed down.

Do you think it is better to gly now then rake up the debris closer to seed down? Then another app of gly if needed?

g-man · Jul 19, 2021

In my opinion, gly is cheap and i would do it before and after. Before so I get the stuff into the plants that are still green and after to get the new stuff.

Bob Loblawn · Jul 19, 2021

Update on Mon 7/19:

Took @g-man's advice and applied another app of gly. I figured I should probably listen to you since you know a thing or two

. A little sore around the stitches, but all is good for now. 4 gal sprayer isn't much different than an 11 month old in weight.

Applied at 3 tbsp/300 SF/Gallon, 6 total gallons. Luckily was able to cram in a spray session in the afternoon during an open window at work.

I always underestimate how long it takes to prepare all the gear for the gly app, actually spray, then clean-up. I'm using a backpack battery sprayer and cleaning out the tank 3x times after the application to be extra safe - that's the time-suck.

Pictures of gly app below. Used a little less blue marking dye closer in (hence the lighter color, but should not be missed spots)

g-man · Jul 19, 2021

I read this too late, but for your next application you can use 4oz of gly in 1 gallon of water into 1ksqft. Spike the water with ams before adding the gly to get a even better kill.

Bob Loblawn · Jul 19, 2021

Thanks @g-man. Is the purpose of the AMS to drive growth before the gly kicks in? I have soluble Lesco urea (46-0-0) so I could use that too.

I've got about two weeks til seed down. Should I consider this approach near or on seed day? Or am I too late at this point? Or should I go run out and toss some urea granular tonight? Thanks for your help!

g-man · Jul 20, 2021

AMS helps with hardwater thus making more of the gly available. It also helps foliar feeding the grass. This feeding helps the plant grow thus moving the gly thru the plant/roots.

But don't worry about it. You don't need to do anything else.

jskierko · Jul 20, 2021

Bob Loblawn said:
cleaning out the tank 3x times after the application to be extra safe - that's the time-suck.

If you are going to continue to use this sprayer for non-gly apps, I'd test sprayed product in a small inconspicuous area first before you go and blanket the whole yard. Have heard stories of residual gly being left in the tank (even with multiple flushings) causing damage when not desired. If possible, have a "glyphosate only" sprayer (and mark it as such) to avoid this issue.

mribbens · Jul 20, 2021

Following this as I am in Grayslake, should look great when you are done!

Bob Loblawn · Jul 20, 2021

jskierko said:
Bob Loblawn said:

cleaning out the tank 3x times after the application to be extra safe - that's the time-suck.

Click to expand...

If you are going to continue to use this sprayer for non-gly apps, I'd test sprayed product in a small inconspicuous area first before you go and blanket the whole yard. Have heard stories of residual gly being left in the tank (even with multiple flushings) causing damage when not desired. If possible, have a "glyphosate only" sprayer (and mark it as such) to avoid this issue.

Absolutely, great call. I tried the 3x washing method on another sprayer and all seemed ok. But you're right…should test it just to be safe. I'm going to use it to spray some bifenthren around the house foundation to keep out bugs. Hopefully that will dilute it even more. And I'll use it for tenacity app at seed down, so hopefully that dilutes even more.

Really hope not to learn the hard way!

Bob Loblawn · Jul 20, 2021

mribbens said:
Following this as I am in Grayslake, should look great when you are done!

Thanks @mribbens, hoping for the best so I can tell my wife it was all worth it (she'll still roll her eyes…ha!).

Looks like you were planning a small reno area for the fall- is that still on the table for you? Would love to follow along.

mribbens · Jul 21, 2021

I did do that, but I didn't input on here, I have kept up on my IG account. I went with the Barenbrug PRG Turf Star RPR, and it has come in nicely. I wasn't a reno, but a overseed, even though I beat up my existing grass pretty badly.

Bob Loblawn · Jul 24, 2021

As i wait patiently in preparation for the next renovation steps, I like to remind myself of the Poa A I'll hopefully be getting rid of (or much less of) in the future.

The first pic is what I'm reno'ing this fall. The second pic is what I attempted to renovate this spring. The spring reno side has much more shade and had to mix in fescue with KBG.

You can see all the discoloration or lighter color grass is where the Poa A is.

I took these pics Dec 26th 2019. I can't recall the weather that year but certainly seems like the lawn looked pretty green for winter.

Bob Loblawn · Jul 25, 2021

Sunday 7/25

After about a week of letting the gly kick in, I mowed the reno area on the lowest setting. Filled up maybe a full bag or so of dead grass. I think that might be the most I'm going to get.

With planned seed down 8/2, I'm really going to need to use the SunJoe dethatcher this week to get rid of more dead grass and open up some soil. You can see how much grass is still there in the pics below, so I'm thinking a few passes are in order. I'm nervous about bringing up Poa A seeds but hopefully tenacity at seed down (and a few weeks later per @g-man's guide) will help. Then prodiamine after 60 days.

Weather will be HOT this week (heat index upper 90s) until Thursday or Friday. So definitely not going to seed early. Week of 8/2 is looking good for seed down. High 70s / low 80s. Let's hope it sticks. I would go this weekend but riding solo on parent duty while the wife is out of town.

Liquidstone · Jul 25, 2021

Looking good. It's tough getting up all that dead material. I have a sun joe dethatcher but like @lbb091919 mentioned in my journal as well, run that bad boy backwards to really pull up material. Going forward just doesn't quite cut it. Good luck!

Bob Loblawn · Jul 26, 2021

Liquidstone said:
Looking good. It's tough getting up all that dead material. I have a sun joe dethatcher but like @lbb091919 mentioned in my journal as well, run that bad boy backwards to really pull up material. Going forward just doesn't quite cut it. Good luck!

Appreciate that tip - got my work cut out for me!

Bob Loblawn · Jul 28, 2021

Mon 7/26

With all dead grass, it's time to clear it out and get down to the soil. Dethatched using the SunJoe on middle setting ("0"). It pulled up a lot of material. @Liquidstone and @lbb091919 you guys are absolutely right on going backwards. I tried as best as I could. Bag mowed on lowest setting and emptied maybe 3 or 4 bags. But didn't get everything.

As an aside, we had to get our patio raised and the guys used concrete (instead of traditional mudjacking). They definitely got some of the concrete mix in the renovation area. I'll likely try to get a bag or two of soil there. They also ran some heavier machinery over an area we sodded (KBG) in the front yard a couple months ago. I was horrified. Pics to show the damage. Doesn't look as bad as it was originally, but worried it's damaged.

Tue 7/27
Got back to work with the SunJoe this evening. Put it on the -5 setting, which is technically supposed to be a setting for the scarifier. But picked up a lot more material. Bag mowed again but it's just not doing the trick. It was getting late so didn't use blower and manually raked the dead material into piles. Not. Fun. I'll be sore tomorrow.

For my spring reno, I did pass after pass after pass. So I'll probably try to do one more pass each day this week. Eventually will switch to scarifier.

Still plan to seed down next week. I have my work cut out for me to pull more dead material for good seed to soil contact. Dreading the raking, but no turning back. Luckily I took the whole week off from work next week.

After raking into piles

Still lots of material to pull up

Liquidstone · Jul 28, 2021

It's no easy task, that's for sure. I went at it the whole time with the dethatching attachment on -10. Figured I'm trying to pull up as much junk as possible, why not? It may hinder life on that unit but it beat the heck out of using a manual rake! Looks like your sod should be fine, still a pain having to go through that!

lbb091919 · Jul 28, 2021

I used the -10 setting too. Maybe give that a try for a couple passes.

Bob Loblawn · Jul 28, 2021

Thanks guys- hoping to get back out there this evening when it cools down a bit and will give it a go at the -10 setting

mribbens · Jul 29, 2021

I would agree the -10 setting and walk super slowly with it, mine got right down to the soil in nearly all places. The key, for me, with the SunJoe is the slow walking, almost stopping as you go every few feet. Can't wait to see your progress.

Bob Loblawn's 2021 & 2022 100% KBG Renovation (Northern IL)

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