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Sam's TTTF / KBG Renovation

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#1 ·
Hello Everyone!

I'm in the progress of renovating my backyard. It's my first renovation, and a lot of fun! I've learned SO MUCH from this site, especially the lawn journals from all of you awesome people!. @ryanknorr's videos have also been a fantastic place for me to learn about the renovation process, so thank you for sharing your experience with all of us.

I've applied two applications of glyphosate (8oz of 41% / M) and the lawn is looking toasty.



I've got a question about humic acid, and also need some help determining a seeding date. I'm seeding 90% TTTF and 10% KBG



My plan for the rest of the reno:
1. Put down Kelp4Less Extreme Blend (humic, fulvic, kelp). I'm going to apply it at 1.6 oz / M, tank mixed with warm water. Should I put this down now and give it time to work into the soil before seeding, or put it down at the time of seeding?
2. Smooth and lay seed all in the same day - Topsoil, Roll (with roller filled?), Milorganite, Scotts Starter with Mesotrione, Seed, Peat Moss, Roll (with roller mostly empty?)

Help me pick a seeding date, please! I've learned that it's best to target the beginning of September, but that it is also highly dependent on the weather. Today is in the mid 90's and we've got some storms in the 15-day forecast. I'm coming off a failed spring reno (took down a tree in February and didn't want a mud pit over the summer) where I had my seed wash out TWICE, so I'm very leery about any forecasted rain and completely overthinking the seeding date this time :oops: If you have a good suggestion, how did you come up with it?

 
#2 ·
I'm about an hour and a half north of you and what that means is our climates aren't very different.

The ideal seeding date for our area is actually mid-August. When I renovated in 2015 my seed down date was 8/15. IIRC, it was very warm that summer too. 3 years later I have a lush, dark-green KBG lawn.

TL;DR Get that seed down very soonish. You have an extra week leeway since you're going with mostly TTTF, but we're already 2 weeks past mid-August.
 
S
#3 ·
Dont sweat it but dont wait too much longer either. Im in Bergen county NJ and Last fall i did a 4k KBG renovation and my seed down date was September 1st ( would have done it Aug 15th but I wanted to make sure the pre M that i put down in the spring was gone ) I was nervous because that date was a little late for KBG but it was a success.
Im in the process of renovating my backyard 3k with KBG and my seed down date is sept 1st again, hopefully ill be as successful as I was last year.
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the kick in the pants @chrismar. I am more worried about the rain than heat, honestly. I guess that's why I bought extra seed, though.

It's nice to know the proper date, but I don't think I could have made that happen this year. We had my son's first birthday in the back yard in the middle of August, so I couldn't get my first glyphosate application down until August 18th.

I've been pulling night duty with a thatch take the past couple nights after everyone is in bed, so I should be ready to get seed down this weekend. The thunderstorms forecasted just scare me!

Good luck with your backyard @skippynj17! If you did well in Bergen county on September 1st, then I think there's hope for me :) I have a feeling our weather is just different enough that I'll be fine if I sow this weekend! I do have a thick bermuda lawn in the front without trying very hard :lol: Maybe one day I'll renovate it and convert to real grass!
 
D
#5 ·
Get on it! Dont worry about the heat, as long as you have some sort of timer or in ground irrigation. By the time you have germination it will have cooled off some. As for the storms, Im in about the same area as you. Im actually from South Jersey, they have been calling for spotty storms ever since its been humid this last week and I havent seen any. With that said put down an tackifier or mbinder and you wont need to worry about a pop up storm.

Im also in the middle of a reno, I did KBG and am 22 days in since seed down. It's stressful but be patient and youll be ok
 
#6 ·
Good point, @dacoyne! The storms don't often come when they're in the forecasted this time of year. I've read your lawn journal and love the dog sign. We're across from an elementary, and on a corner, so our fence line has a lot of foot traffic like yours by your local high school. If my dog wasn't so old and liked being outside more, I would consider doing the same. Plus too many treats and he gets gasy :eek:!

I've never actually seen a tackifier available online. They seem like the lawn forum's urban myth...
 
#8 ·
Huston we've made contact.... seed to soil that is. Wow is peat moss a pain to spread on a reno! I do like how easy it is to tell what's wet, though. Thanks for the push. Now here's to hoping there aren't any washouts like this spring! I feel a lot better rolling the seed in this time around, though.

 
#10 ·
First signs of life! 4 days since seed down. Luckily I work from home and can basically turn on the sprinklers wherever and whenever I want. It's been easy to keep everything damp with short (5-10 min) watering cycles 5-6 times a day in the 90+ degree heat.

You can see in the bottom right of the picture some of the ground ivy I've been trying to kill off. A few new leaves have sprouted since last Saturday. Glyphosate does a poor job killing off that stuff.

 
E
#11 ·
I overseeded with the same blend, just at a 80/20 from Hogans, stuff really started kicking in between day 11-14 and now Im seeing another surge of growth. Kept it pretty moist and then got lucky with some nice rainfall. Just dropped a half rate of fertilzer and milo on it as well.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5780&p=99633#p99633
 
#12 ·
Here's the morning of day 6. By the evening, I think I've got seedlings across ~80% of the lawn. I've got one area with a few inches of soil over a tree stump that will likely be iffy, and a couple small areas with poor sprinkler coverage. For the most part I'm happy, though! I put down 13lbs of seed over 2k sq ft. I've got 12 more if I need to reseed anywhere. Luckily it doesn't seem like I'll need it.

I've been lucky with the weather. Tonight is the first rain since seed down, so no wash outs. Despite the past four days being 90+ I've been able to keep everything moist. I've had to run the sprinklers 4-5 times between 10a-4p and hand water drier spots. Luckily it's not more than a couple minutes work run a cycle in my rigged up system, and I work from home and have been able to keep an eye on it.

@Ecukingbuddy, another surge next week? I'll need a new mower! :lol: I think the heat and humidity from constant watering has sped up germination. Glad that you like the blend so far. I'm excited watching it grow in!

Image


Don't mind my poor attempt at a panorama shot
 
#14 ·
It rained a decent amount on day 7, but I only had puddling in a couple small areas. Not a big deal. After that, here's the morning of Day 8 (today).





And then it rained... all... day.



I think I've got pretty good coverage over most of the yard prior to the major puddling today. There's much more sprouted up that you can't see even in those pictures. Given that I had 2 total washouts this spring, I'm very happy with where it was at before the rain came. I know I'll be overseeding an area of the lawn (not pictured) under a downspout. I've also got two small areas along my fence where sprinkler coverage was poor and I didn't catch it right away. I have a feeling that even if that seed was going to germinate late, it's gone now.

Since the rain came after 4 good days of germination, how much of the lawn will I need to overseed? I'd like to keep it mostly TTTF, so I don't want to depend on the KBG just filling in the thin spots naturally. What's a good rule of thumb to decide if an area is thick enough or should get a sprinkling of seed? When will it be far enough along to gauge that?
 
#15 ·
Pulled the trigger and spread 1.5 lbs of seed while I was surveying rain damage today. Overall the germination is looking great. Seeded about 150 sq ft of bare areas (about 1#) and lightly overseeded the thinnest areas with the rest. It only took 8 minutes, and if it washes away later this week, oh well. I just couldn't resist taking advantage of the wet conditions.

Just as I was finishing up, a light rain started, which was perfect! 150 bare sq ft out of 2000 is not bad for the first seeding in 90 degree weather.
 
#16 ·
Consolidating a few posts about potted grass. I potted some grass seed outside in the same environment as the yard. Here's the progress so far. It was seeded Saturday, September 1st.

This was taken Friday evening, September 7. The sprout on the left had germinated Thursday (5 days). I'm assuming the sprout on the right had just popped up.



This one was taken Saturday, September 8.



And this was tonight, September 10.



All of those pictures are the TTTF in my mix. I dug through to find some KBG that was sprouting from smaller hulls. There's a BIG difference between the two right now. The foreground is TTTF, and the background is KBG.



When I seeded, my 2 year old daughter said "I grow grass, too!", so I helped her pot some that's been on the table by a window. We gave it a haircut today. Just cut it at the top of the pot nice and even. She was pretty excited about using scissors, since that's not something you normally let a 2 year old do!

 
#17 ·
And here's a 9 day pic of the best looking area of the renovation. This area was shaded during the heat. The rest is starting to catch up but isn't quite to this stage, yet.

 
#21 ·
@pennstater2005 that middle picture shows the young dappled willow I started from a branch in May. It's already about 5 feet tall and wide, though not very full yet.
 
#22 ·
Day 12 update from the pots!

I pulled a sample from the outside pot. The plants are definitely maturing. They're darkening, and looking closely, the tips are beginning to keel.

The longest roots are nearing 3 inches.



Top growth averages almost 2".



The roots are starting to branch as well



Here's a pic of the inside pot. It got its second haircut Tuesday, which was 2 days ago. It's growing fast! About 1" of growth in the past couple days. Maybe it was the fact that it got an cut, or the constant 72 degrees inside, but it's growing at a much faster rate than the stuff outside.

 
#23 ·
Day 13 in the Lawn

The best angle. I love the coverage so far! The area against the fence in the right of the picture took a while to catch up but it's finally filled in.



And the worst. This is a close up of the thin area in the image above. It's got germination in it, but not nearly as much. It's one of the spots that got a light overseed on Monday. The new stuff should be popping up any day now.



I thinks it's about ready for its first mow. Maybe tomorrow!
 
#24 ·
Day 14 First Mow!

Mowed at 2.25". The tallest stuff was about 3" before cutting. My wife said she wished she would have made me a sign :lol:



The plants have developed multiple blades, now.



And we've got germination in the bald spot I reseeded Monday!

 
#26 ·
Thanks @emile! I did put down the extreme blend a few days before seeding. I'm not sure if that actually did anything, though. I'm going to try to put it down again in October. It's go so little nitrogen that I'm not going to even bother coordinating it with fertilizer applications. I credit most of the success to diligent watering. At times it felt excessive. When the temperature peaked, that meant up to every 60-90 minutes.
 
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